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Stargate BtS

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by dataskywalker, May 3, 2011.

  1. Crayton

    Crayton King

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    Nah, it was a land-based map/mod. The only useful thing there (beside a decent map) is Gate Travel. It mostly needed graphics and units to make it look more Stargate-y.
     
  2. 4lexander

    4lexander Warlord

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    Correct.


    But actually the word Tok'ra means "enemies of Ra" who was the major of the Goa'uld before being killed in the first movie, sorta a king.

    So long that it extensively means "enemies of Goau'ld system"... so it would fit.

    On the other side, the Tok'ra would never accept a Jaffa - even free ones - symbol as they are proud to be "enemies of the Goau'ld" centuries before the Tau'ri or the advent of the Jaffa rebellion...


    So the question is: a symbol for they all - included Tau'ri? - or one for each one?

    I would suggest the second one, with the burned tatoo for the free Jaffas, the Tok'ra hyerogliphic for the second ones, and "freedom of religion" with all earth religions for Tau'ris cities...


    (as long as it is actually placed in our times, there is no reason to insert fantasy religions for them)


    Further, Asgard seems to be sorta agnostic themselves but occasionally present themselves as gods to help primitive people (difference with Goa'uld is subtly on finalities), so Asgard civ should be goau'ld-free-religion, but the people protected by themselves ("vassals" in Civ?) should have one sort of Asgard-religion...


    Religions are one of the most important parts of the mod, 'cause of the importance it has in the Stargate civs.

    Same of them could be compatibles, such as anti-goauld and pro-asgard, or pro-whichever earth religion... but many of them must be incompatible, such as goa'uld and everyone else...

    This is hard work for dataskywalker... ;)
     
  3. dataskywalker

    dataskywalker Warlord

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    I love your interest, 4lexander :). But I can't make tons of religions. I'll try using Rak'nor's burned tatoo as my first symbol, and if I don't like that, I'll go with the zat. Remember, I'm only starting out. This is my first mod. And I'm not much of an artist. If you have any artistic skill you try and upload.
     
  4. 4lexander

    4lexander Warlord

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    Thank you. ;)


    I searched for Free Jaffa and Tok'ra on Stargate Wikia, but I didn't find any symbol for them anywhere on the wiki.

    But I did find the eye of Ra, don't know about license. Anyway, it is a famous egiptian glypho so I should find it free to use on the web.

    I' ll look for it and upload, maybe with some improvement if I can.


    Unluckily, I have no modding abilities, vice versa I'd like to help you.

    I can try making out the golden eye of Ra with Paint.net, but I cannot warrant nothing...

    If I will not upload nothing it means my efforts did no acceptable results...


    Anyway thanks for your work. ;)
     
  5. dataskywalker

    dataskywalker Warlord

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    'In Trailer Voice'

    Still to come: Religion Founding Movies: What will they be?? Stick around to find out!

    ...I actually don't have any at the moment, but I sure like input. :D
     
  6. 4lexander

    4lexander Warlord

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    Here I came with the input.

    Well, not on movies, but on previous stuff: I have the Eye of Ra done.

    Well, actually it is called "Horus" one but it is the same so nobody would notice.


    It is in public domain, so you can do it whatever you like: edit, publish etc without even linking.

    I already edited the original black with a golden one, use it as you wish.

    As long as I did some re-styling, you should credit me on readme of the mod.


    I give you both original file (black one) and edited one (golden).

    Choose which you prefer.

    Hope it helps, I'm not Da Vinci...
     

    Attached Files:

  7. dataskywalker

    dataskywalker Warlord

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    I found an image of a Sodan staff weapon, and I'm thinking of using that, since the Sodan were free of the Goauld for thousands of years, and when they realized the Ori were not the Ancients they rebelled against them.
     
  8. dataskywalker

    dataskywalker Warlord

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    I've realized I only prepared five new religions and there are seven in-game, so I need more ideas for religions. My idea is 'Sci-fi', since Stargate was always poking fun at the fans and they even had Wormhole X-treme, which was probably the best thing that ever happened in Stargate. Any other ideas?

    Another idea I had was 'Exploration', since that is one of the leading goals at the SGC.
     
  9. 4lexander

    4lexander Warlord

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    When I told you my ideas about religions you said they were too much...

    Well, on the job.

    The best thing to do is a full list:


    1) Goauld

    2) Anti-goauld ("no false gods" for Free Jaffas and Tok'ra)

    3) Asgard (for humans worshipping them)

    4) Ori

    5) Ascension Path

    6) Propagation of Species (Replicators' thought of their supposed right to "eat" all Universe to spread infinitely)

    7) Progress (fits perfectly both the Tau'ri spirit of discovery you speaken of and Asgard addiction on technology )


    What do you think?

    I tryied to keep most religions with original ones in the series and create ones close to other civs' philosophy in show.

    I also have ideas on which advantage some could do... tell me if you are interested. ;)
     
  10. dataskywalker

    dataskywalker Warlord

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    I'm sorry, 4lexander :sad:, it just seemed like you were talking about making two versions of essentially the same philosophy/religion.

    I like your 'Propagation of Species' and 'Progress' ideas, I really do. My idea for the 'Progress' symbol is Daniel Jackson's hat that he used to wear in early SG-1 episodes, 'cause he was always the one who would start off with '...we are explorers, travelers from another planet, etc'. Propagation of Species could be a wall of Replicator pieces.

    Did you like my Sci-fi idea though? I just thought it would be funny to be the Goauld and have 'Sci-fi' as your religion:worship: .
     
  11. 4lexander

    4lexander Warlord

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    Thanks first of all.


    The idea is really funny, but for realism' s sake I would prefere Goauld to have the Goauld religion, as they really think themselves as gods and make others worship them as a part of their power...

    I do not mean to abandon the idea of Scifi religion though, it is cool... it could be used with other civs, like the Asgard?

    In fact they are very hard-core scifi people as one of the few non-humanish species in stargate, and one of the most advanced in sci-fi techs (teleport, instant synthetis)


    But as you say it is like there is sorta a duplication: Sci-fi and Progress are too close imo.

    Maybe we have to choose between the two.

    We need more brainstorming... xD


    Jackson hut idea is great, I'll like to see it ingame for such a religion!

    The followers of Progress worshipping the Daniel Jackson's hut make me think many funny things.

    Let me know what you think on my modest proposals. ;)
     
  12. Archaic

    Archaic Chieftain

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    love stargate. this is a great idea for a mod but rather than a repilcator religion, since the repilicators never had a religion in the shows, why not a civilization that cannot adopt a new religion. i think that would better represent the replicators.

    as for the problem of missing religion find a couple of "local" religion from the show and have them randomly spawn if the gou'old empire is defeated.

    another idea is rather than one big gou'uld empire make a bunch of smaller kingdoms with just one leader like ba'al, zeus, "funny egyptian names that are to hard to spell" ect. and make it so that they form defensive pact with each other more often than in normal game.

    another idea is when the game starts, a earth infintry(o'neill and his team) starts right out side of the only Ra city to represent the first movie and two thing you can do to make this better is make sure the ai playing as earth does attack the city and not wander off and set Ra up as friendly with all the otehr leaders so that earth has atleast a -4 relation plus the -4 from religion with all the gou'old kingdom

    just thought of this build this ontop of revolutions to make it more realistic.

    i hope you make the full mod, i know i would play, and play as ba'al and rule all the world as thier supreme :bowdown: :bowdown: :egypt: :mwaha:
     
  13. 4lexander

    4lexander Warlord

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    Every Civ in the game has a religion, it is a main feature of the game.

    A civ without a religion has an huge handicap (think on the lack of bonuses).

    So long that we must find a religion for each one, that's what fit best Replicator's philosophy.


    The idea of the starting units on Ra planet - Abydos - is great for first time realism, but once you even manged to killed Ra, the desert planet of Abydos is not the best place to start off, neither in show Tau'ri did really start there to build.

    It is self-evident that starting location of Tauri is Tauri, btw.

    At least we could add, if possible, a group of military units there, but not starting one - settlers etc.


    The idea for the Goau'ld alliance is pretty good for 100% realism, but for game mechanics it is a lot easier to make one Goauld civ, one Asgard etc... Or the map dimension will not allow to have many others such as Ori, Replicators etc...


    About the final part, it is evident that Tauri and Goauld should not ever be allied, and the idea on religion malus could be quiet good to realize it, assuming Goauld to be necessary stack with their one always.

    But it should be possibile to have the same results blocking the diplo stats for the civs so long that Tauri, Tok'ra, Asgard and Free Jaffas to be always enemy of Goauld system.

    There is no need to mess up with religions further than blocking some of them for some civs (Gouald should not have anti-goauld, it would be weird, etc).


    I think the really difficult part on this mod would be the technical part - e.g. how to make some techs available only for some civs (think on differences in show between Asgard technology and Goauld one).

    And balancing, it will be hard to set up.

    It will need a lot of work on those things...


    In my opinion.
     
  14. dataskywalker

    dataskywalker Warlord

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    My first goal with this mod is first to establish a fun sandbox mode based on classic Civ gameplay. Once that is done, I'll start working on scenarios.

    My current goals are to:1. Establish religions with icons and founding movies (with old building and missionaries) and 2. Try to get a Jaffa warrior into the mod, the model and textures coming from the Stargate:Empire at War team. Content first, realism second.
     
  15. 4lexander

    4lexander Warlord

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    Right :thumbsup:


    What do you think of my Goauld religion icon? Do you like it/think of using it? I would like to see it in game very much.

    If you wish, I can try to find and make more religions icons, even alternative ones. I have quiet a few ideas...

    If it isn't too bad btw... ;)
     
  16. dataskywalker

    dataskywalker Warlord

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    I thought we had agreed with using the Ra pendant, but if you want me to use yours, that's fine.
     
  17. Archaic

    Archaic Chieftain

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    i still dont think the replictors need a religion it is not realistic, give them other bonus like realy cheap but weak units.
    and i still think a couple of gou'old kingdoms would be better than one big gou'old empire, there was alot of infighting between the diffrent gou'old "gods" and the gou'old had alot of wars between each other. and only when circimstance forced it did they even think about working together(one of the reason earth wasnt attack my a massive gou'old fleet early on) these are my idea for a fun game iw ould love to play the game ass a gou'old like ba'al or one of the others and fight other gou'old
     
  18. dataskywalker

    dataskywalker Warlord

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    @Archaic

    I'm not ignoring your reasonable suggestion, it's still a lot of work to be done in the future. What I have in mind from your suggestion is to have a Greater System Lord civ for the big bad goaulds(namely Ra, Apophis, Sokar, Anubis and Ba'al) and a Lesser System Lord civ for the others. This is still an idea for the future, though.

    Another idea is to have a mod-mod where easc System Lord is on his own and you exclusively fight the others

    Concerning the replicators, perhaps we can have a civic that favors replicator beliefs.

    And remember everyone, we musn't forget Stargate:Atlantis.
     
  19. 4lexander

    4lexander Warlord

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    OK, we all know well the show and things like the competition between the various System Lords AND the fact that Replicators have not a "religion"... but this is a Game.

    And so long it is impossible to represent 100% canon. We have to make things playable.

    Adapt it, make compromises.


    A thousand Goauld "kingdoms" ingame means a ton of civs _only_ for goauld... there is no more space for all others main species.

    Actually the internal competition between those Lords would become more important than the war with Tauri and allies that IS the main part of SG, while the competition secondary and always freezed in case of such wars...

    So long it is necessary to semplify the Goau'ld as one Civ: in fact they are, with many feudal lords, but when is menaced the entire System they act as one - in show itself.

    And in fact in the Game they Will be menaced, by many, Tauri, Tokra, Rebel Jaffa, Asgard...


    So to make the most complete SG universe we need to make one civ for one species. Sentence.


    This is called semplify.

    We cannot port into a mod everything, main things have priority onto secondary.

    It is a necessary choice.


    As long as with Replicator, we all know they are godless machines, but religion is too much important in Civilization to allow all Civs have a religion and only one no.

    Don't call it religion, call it philosophy or Policy, but Replicators too DO need it.

    And in the show itself they Do show to have one, while the humanoids replicators explain SG1 they think they have right to propagate as a species, no matter if they will consume all Universe.


    This is the closest thing they have to an ideology, so it is not so far from canon to give them a "Propagation of Species" philosophy or similar.


    This is a Turn Based Strategy Game - mod project.

    We cannot port into it, nor into any game/genre, ALL of the show, or any show. Just main of it.

    We have to make sacrifices on secondary things such those above.


    Don't misunderstand, I would totally love a game that would allow me both to fight as O'Neill, solve puzzles as Carter & Jackson, command as Hammond and the President.

    It would sell a billion copy.

    But at now this is not possible yet. We could make a strategy mod in a strategy game as Civ4. Or a FPS mod in a FPS game such as BF2. And so on...


    Don't misunderstand what I mean.

    It would be great to make all things 100% realistic, but it is simply not possible, yet.

    Every modder will tell you.


    Btw this doesn' t mean I am against your idea of fighting between Goaulds as is. It would be cool for me too to play. And it is not impossible.

    I only say it is not possible in the main mod. As the Author say, next to it he will make the scenarios.

    And I am the first to hope that one of the scenario should be such thing, in which you choose your System Lord and fight against others, without any further civs without affecting main mod.


    Just like FFH: Age of Ice scenario in Fall From Heaven Mod.

    It would be a great way to realize all we need to leave behind in the main mod.

    Others could include the possibility to play as the Ancients, the Alliance of 4 Races, Atlantis and so on.


    Sorry if I take it too long, but I wish to be understood.

    Best wishes.
     
  20. 4lexander

    4lexander Warlord

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    This was in answer to Archaic, I totally agree with Dataskywalker.

    Expecially the mod mod idea, I had the same thoughts as you may read. ;)

    Best wishes
     

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