Start Scumming literally 4 times as much Civ 5

[OranHarken]

Between spawning somewhere with terrible placement options for districts, the rampant barbarians who arrive fasters than any reasonable army can be built and leader who need barbarians turned on who get the main benefit for their abilities like Gilgamesh and Gorgo (early culture from battle without warring) I just cannot enjoy this game in it's current state.

I've kept a list and I've started 28 offline games and have not got a single one of them to turn 100 before the map presented itself as entirely unwinnable between the start and relentless barbarians and starting next to war mongering Norwegians with a dozen of warriors by turn 50 (in 3 separate games). I have quickly realized what type of terrain you need for optimal district placement in your first two cities and found that 1 out of every 9 starts balanced enough between resources and empty hexes for districts next to hexes that give them the right bonuses.

I've only attempted to play 3 multiplayer games with randos, every one of them had over half people dropping out by turn 25 to 30 due to having starts they deemed unplayable combined with the barbarians. Even compared to past Civ V multiplayer this is an astoundingly high rate of people quitting matches.

I love the idea of the unstacked cities but Firaxis has failed to prove to me they have balance it, let alone expecting the AI to be capable of utilizing the new mechanics properly.

 

[Mort_Q]

What difficulty level are you playing at? I think you may be making assumptions as to what is winnable based on your Civ V habits/experiences, rather than trying to play Civ VI.

 

[Hyronymus]

Also, what build order do you stick to?

 

[stiiknafuulia]

The best tiles to start nearby seem to be (forested) hills with resources -- Deer, Stone, and Bananas especially. It certainly takes some getting used to that a jungle start is a blessing now, as opposed to certain death!
I agree that the spawning algorithm needs some work... For one thing, the naval Civs can start a good distance away from the coast, and/or without fresh water!

You can 'harvest' resources away with Builders before building districts, so it's not the end of the world if there's too many of them around.

 

[Battlehelm043]

I'm playing as Sparta and I had one hell of a classical war for liberation going on with Sumeria... That war-cart spam plus warriors can take a toll, but my hoplites held the line; with some tactical terrain placement; now I've got the big lug on the back heel. I do agree there are some learning pains, and nasty annoying bugs. Still it is very playable, especially with the global happiness removed. With the revamped systems it is still more playable than CiV.

 

[JimmyBanks]

Wow, so on one hand we have people complaining that it's impossible to lose and on the other you have people complaining that it's unwinnable. I'd have to say, sounds to me like the devs got it pretty well right on the money.

 

[OranHarken]

What difficulty level are you playing at? I think you may be making assumptions as to what is winnable based on your Civ V habits/experiences, rather than trying to play Civ VI.

Prince. I consider a map "unwinnable" when I realize there is no way I can get decent adjacent bonuses for the wonders I am aiming for or my campus or theater district. The turn my plans are stalled by a setback like getting half the optimal yield out of a tile that will yield for another 300 turns is the last turn I was on a given map. Early mistakes snowball into major defectiveness late game.

Also, what build order do you stick to?

I have tried several things based on my available resources. Pottery -> Irrigation to exploit good tiles asap, Mining -> Astrology/Masonry to grab Stone Hedge/Pyramid, Also tried Sythian trying to spam their unique unit early.

The best tiles to start nearby seem to be (forested) hills with resources -- Deer, Stone, and Bananas especially. It certainly takes some getting used to that a jungle start is a blessing now, as opposed to certain death!
I agree that the spawning algorithm needs some work... For one thing, the naval Civs can start a good distance away from the coast, and/or without fresh water!

You can 'harvest' resources away with Builders before building districts, so it's not the end of the world if there's too many of them around.

I agree the issue is the start locations. I think that with the right start I could really enjoy the game but because 'muh spectrum' anything less the FOO and I lose interest.

Wow, so on one hand we have people complaining that it's impossible to lose and on the other you have people complaining that it's unwinnable. I'd have to say, sounds to me like the devs got it pretty well right on the money.

When I said unwinnable what I mean is I do not want to finish games of Civ 6 before turn 100 because hitting next turn 200 more times when I know my horsehockey start gimped my late game, in Civ 5 it took until at least turn 200 for me to feel like the map has been resolved.

 

[Frank327]

If you need to restart most of your games to make them "winnable" then the problem might not be with the locations you're getting. What I find with start locations is that the biggest limiting factor is actually either production or housing and in very rare (tundra) cases food. If the districts don't line up in the capital then there's usually another city spot somewhere else that can compensate for it. Also to beat prince AI you hardly need perfect city planning. Just decent city planning is enough to tech ahead from them at least at king level.

I'm already starting to have a love relation with sheep and cattle tiles. They just turn into such excellent tiles by the midgame while they don't really look spectacular at the start. Also sea resources are really underwhelming.

 

[Mav12]

Same issue here, most games I have to end up restarting withon the first 40 turns because barbs (why do barbs even get horse archers so early, cant even attack them without suicidng the unit) either kill my units at a rate faster than my capital can produce new ones, or when I turn barbs off its an AI civ that spams military units at me instead

The only successful game Ive had was because I ended up unit spamming (seems to be the new mandatory startegy; start spam military units untill you have like 9 THEN build a civ that can stand the test of time) as America which gets a combat bonus on starting continent

 

[kaspergm]

I think barbs need to be turned down a bit. I like them being a challenge, but they shouldn't turn up with major armies on turn 10. That's just silly.

I do agree with OP that currently, terrain has too much impact on whether a start is playable or not. Mountains are pretty much stay or quit unless you have a civ like Brazil with special rules, and certain tiles like Hills/Forest/Deer or Hills/Rainforest/Banana are just stupidly good with flat yields of 3F/2P or similar.

 

[Hyronymus]

I started as France on a small map and faced severe barb invasions, Germany sneak attacking me and then Spain sneak attacking me. The solution is ARCHERS, after I had 5 of those I conquered Germany and Spain and took control of my little island .