onedreamer
Dragon
Úmarth;6808349 said:
Fully agree. I would start from the beginning though, ie from Egypt.
Starter civ
- Thread starter Civ Khan
- Start date
Fully agree. I would start from the beginning though, ie from Egypt.
The Q-Meister
King
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2005
- Messages
- 774
But I believe (correct me if I'm mistaken) that he wants a starter civ to get the feel of RFC with the addage that he is a very defensive player, so that does not necessarily = the easiest UHV to accomplish. I don't think Egypt is a good choice because of the numerous stability issues, plagues that can wipe out virtually your entire army, the fact that you can't really play it in the later eras etc it might be a difficult or a frustrating experience for someone completely new to RFC.
Babylon I could see that as being extremely frustrating for someone who is new to RFC as all these new civs come in, demand land, and if you don't agree you lose your army and in the meantime you are quickly losing your stability.
The novice player might not realize to stop playing when the UHV has failed (and I personally don't think they should) so that's why I think Japan is the better choice IMO because of its longevity, core area not really going to be fought over, and defensive bonuses for an already defensive minded player make it an ideal choice.
Babylon I could see that as being extremely frustrating for someone who is new to RFC as all these new civs come in, demand land, and if you don't agree you lose your army and in the meantime you are quickly losing your stability.
The novice player might not realize to stop playing when the UHV has failed (and I personally don't think they should) so that's why I think Japan is the better choice IMO because of its longevity, core area not really going to be fought over, and defensive bonuses for an already defensive minded player make it an ideal choice.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
You guys are all missing the elephant in the room. The best, most stable and easiest-to-turtle empire is Russia. To wit:
1. The UP is unbeatable for defense without any effort on the player's part
2. It is super-stable (I know the AI collapses often, but it's because of their stupid war-mongering).
3. It's got plenty of land to expand to, and the 1/3 UHV criteria requires slow expansion towards Siberia
4. Playing till 1950 gives the beginning Rhysian a taste of all ages (medieval to future)
5. War can be declared at the player's leisure (Mongolia almost never declares on me, while Germany I usually defend against in the middle ages and then I hit back with full force when I have tanks)
6. Due to lots of trees, plague doesn't hit Russia as hard as other places (such as Babylon and Egypt)
7. Later civs have an easier time of getting calendar (which helps a lot with knowing the year), and Russia/Turkey share this advantage.
8. Trees are your friend to building quick infrastructure
9. All its UHV goals are what a "normal" player of non-RFC Civ4 players would do: found cities, build infrastructure, build a project for victory (Apollo program), never lose a city. This is opposed to extremely specialized UHV goals like England (founding specific number of cities in Asia can be difficult), Japan (calculating culture on Honshu), Egypt (getting a lot of culture in a short amount of time), or Babylon (using the Oracle wisely).
Once the secrets of starting well with Russia (expanding towards the west from the start;use the whip and chop liberally; getting some good happiness vassals such as Khmer; contacting the East early for trade and techs) are known, you can't really lose.
Japan has unfortunate stability issues with multiple religions and no room for economy to expand. Ditto with Egypt (in fact there's an ongoing thread about how unstable it is due to economy and foreign relations). England is way too hard to manage for a beginner (too many cities to found in the right places without dragging science down).
1. The UP is unbeatable for defense without any effort on the player's part
2. It is super-stable (I know the AI collapses often, but it's because of their stupid war-mongering).
3. It's got plenty of land to expand to, and the 1/3 UHV criteria requires slow expansion towards Siberia
4. Playing till 1950 gives the beginning Rhysian a taste of all ages (medieval to future)
5. War can be declared at the player's leisure (Mongolia almost never declares on me, while Germany I usually defend against in the middle ages and then I hit back with full force when I have tanks)
6. Due to lots of trees, plague doesn't hit Russia as hard as other places (such as Babylon and Egypt)
7. Later civs have an easier time of getting calendar (which helps a lot with knowing the year), and Russia/Turkey share this advantage.
8. Trees are your friend to building quick infrastructure
9. All its UHV goals are what a "normal" player of non-RFC Civ4 players would do: found cities, build infrastructure, build a project for victory (Apollo program), never lose a city. This is opposed to extremely specialized UHV goals like England (founding specific number of cities in Asia can be difficult), Japan (calculating culture on Honshu), Egypt (getting a lot of culture in a short amount of time), or Babylon (using the Oracle wisely).
Once the secrets of starting well with Russia (expanding towards the west from the start;use the whip and chop liberally; getting some good happiness vassals such as Khmer; contacting the East early for trade and techs) are known, you can't really lose.
Japan has unfortunate stability issues with multiple religions and no room for economy to expand. Ditto with Egypt (in fact there's an ongoing thread about how unstable it is due to economy and foreign relations). England is way too hard to manage for a beginner (too many cities to found in the right places without dragging science down).
dionysos2048
AntiSarko
I can't believe Rome and Germany haven't been mentioned
Úmarth
Megalomaniac
I don't know I always get buggered by the horse archer barbs as Russia.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
Úmarth;6816070 said:
I never get them, maybe it's because I send a horse archer towards the east right from the start.
Anyway a whipped wall/spearman in Omsk will take care of them easily.
Wessel V1
Emperor
My first win was Egypt on Viceroy, because it is very straightforward and it doesn't need any luck. Japan also is a good one. Turkey is good as well, just remember not to expand too much, and you'll be extremely solid. These are all on viceroy, a new player shouldn't start on Monarch. As Pacifist mentioned, Russia is also very good but sometimes it takes a lot of time to get to 1950.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
By awesomeness do you mean the sense of accomplishment when you conquer the world as Persia, Mongolia, Arabia, Germany, Rome, Greece, Carthage, Spain or Russia? 
Or admiring the flexibility possible in achieving the Viking UHV--either as a miser, a conquerer, a raider, a squatter, or all of the above?
Or usurp other civ's territory like the Turkish Borg?
Or finally understanding the ingenuity of certain details (like resource placement, starting locations and units, and unique powers) with which R... (He Whose Name Shall Remain Unpronounced) endowed his creation?
Then play Khmer, Inca, England, France, India, Netherlands, Portugal.
Or witness the destruction wrought by his wrath
(ravaging plagues, mysterious sources of instability, endless waves of impi/dog soldiers and barbs), enough to tear your hair out like Job?
Then play as Egypt, Ethiopia or Mali.
:suicide:
You get the idea: there's no wrong choice.
Or admiring the flexibility possible in achieving the Viking UHV--either as a miser, a conquerer, a raider, a squatter, or all of the above?
Or usurp other civ's territory like the Turkish Borg?
Or finally understanding the ingenuity of certain details (like resource placement, starting locations and units, and unique powers) with which R... (He Whose Name Shall Remain Unpronounced) endowed his creation?
Then play Khmer, Inca, England, France, India, Netherlands, Portugal.
Or witness the destruction wrought by his wrath
(ravaging plagues, mysterious sources of instability, endless waves of impi/dog soldiers and barbs), enough to tear your hair out like Job?Then play as Egypt, Ethiopia or Mali.
:suicide:You get the idea: there's no wrong choice.
I never get them, maybe it's because I send a horse archer towards the east right from the start.
Nah, that's not it - I've had them pop up on the north Black Sea coast in full view before (and kill my workers because I forget to cancel their jobs and move them out of the way
). I think they might be a bit more aggressive in the 3000BC start than the 600AD one. Where's Omsk, anyway?My vote would probably go for Japan, my first RFC victory.... a simple UHV, with options on how you can progress your game and a timespan that gives you a decent taste of the new features without lasting forever like Russia or Germany. I do quite like Russia as a suggestion though, just be aware of the early Horse Archers and the fact that you may get performance issues by about 1850 or so (industrial/modern era).
For ancient/classical civs Egypt is possibly the simplest, but I think Greece is almost as simple but much more fun as long as you don't get an unlucky spawn with an impossible to build Oracle (i.e. one of the AIs goes for it straight away). Once you've got a couple of games under your belt I'd then go for Rome - you can see how it is to be right in the thick of it!
I'm not sure about the whole English love-fest by the way - I think the Netherlands, or even France or Portugal (3000BC) are easier UHVs for colonial style civs. If you're not going for the UHV it's perhaps a different story, but if you're new to the mod I think it's much better to have a go at a few of the UHVs as it's such a unique and awesome feature.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
Unfortunately, no (since I don't live the UK), but QI sounds like a very interesting series. Actually QI's method is akin to my whole philosophy about playing games twice--once the routine way, then in a roundabout way (e.g. squatting).
Heck, I won half of the Age of Empire scenarios by skirting around the predictable triggers (e.g. not destroying certain buildings or units so that I can slowly whittle away at the enemy with my few starting units).
Heck, I won half of the Age of Empire scenarios by skirting around the predictable triggers (e.g. not destroying certain buildings or units so that I can slowly whittle away at the enemy with my few starting units).
For those who do not know about QI. (Quite Interesting)
It is a fun- tongue in cheek (mock) quiz game. (From BBC - UK)
But (news wize) up to date. And very funny - and worth watching if you can.
The Elephant in the room - refers to a question - which may in some obleque (odd) way may refer to an elephant. If they find the connection they get bonus points.
Sorry for going off topic.
It is a fun- tongue in cheek (mock) quiz game. (From BBC - UK)
But (news wize) up to date. And very funny - and worth watching if you can.
The Elephant in the room - refers to a question - which may in some obleque (odd) way may refer to an elephant. If they find the connection they get bonus points.
Sorry for going off topic.
Úmarth
Megalomaniac
QI rocks, but "Elephant in the room" is a very common phrase Harrier.
blizzrd
Micromanager
Úmarth;6822576 said:
Indeed it is. I'd never heard of QI before this thread (it hasn't made it to Australia) but I have certainly heard the expression "elephant in the room" used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_in_the_room
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
For me, the elephant in the room is France on a 600AD start. Great UP. GreatUU and easy UHV. Everybody likes you so you can focus on culture and Astronomy from the start.
The UHV even on Monarch is easy but if you miss it your consolation will be a cultural victory in the 1800's.
Nice combination of building, colonising and culture with very little AI agression against you.
Unless of course you prefer constant war?
The UHV even on Monarch is easy but if you miss it your consolation will be a cultural victory in the 1800's.
Nice combination of building, colonising and culture with very little AI agression against you.
Unless of course you prefer constant war?
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
I agree with France (love its flexibility in squatting and its HUGE American entitlement AKA Nouvelle France). But RFC is so great that there's really no wrong civ to start with (well, maybe except Ethiopia). To quote myself again:
You get the idea: there's no wrong choice.
You get the idea: there's no wrong choice.
