Status of AI and diplomacy

[Victoria]

Yeah, I didn't mention the graphics. I personally hate them -

I had this bad when I started but you get used to it once you stop touching V

 

[Art Morte]

I still haven't got used to the lenses, don't think I will, either. Trying to make out the terrain with them is just painful.

 

[CPWimmer]

This thread touches on a similar question I was going to post - so I guess I won't start a new thread. I played the game when it came out and was left a bit "meh" by it. First half was interesting. But a lot of the game seemed a bit flappy and unnecessary. So I didn't buy it. I couldn't decide if it was because I didn't like the design decisions or because it was just poorly balanced.

I'm wondering if they've balanced it better and tightened it up. I can keep waiting for the xmas sale or even Spring sale, or even the next xpack. But I'm curious how it plays now compared to how it played at release. Is it a lot better than at release or just slightly better?

I love Civ 6. I bought it on day one, and I haven't touched Civ 5 since 6 came out. At this point I'm closing in on 1,000 hours now on 6. I would recommend it to most people at this point. HOWEVER, I would recommend against it for anyone asking something to the effect of "have they improved the late game experience" - because, "No. The end game hasn't really been tightened up yet." I feel that will require an expansion pack (or two) to get where 4 and 5 ended up.

I think Victoria did a good job of summarizing the Pros and Cons of Civ 6. I think for @Shadowhal this would be an enjoyable game, as they have cleaned up most of the things you've read complaints about. And it sounds like your level of play won't run into some of the complaints that people still have about Deity. I think for Greasy Dave it might not be the right game for him, unless I misunderstood his area of concern.

However, I would like to point out @Kyro, comparing RTS games like StarCraft 2 or Command and Conquer to a TBS game like Civ 6 is just a non-starter for me. Those two genres generate a completely different gaming experience and have few mechanics and design goals in common.

 

[trev1972]

Am I the only one who has trouble identifying terrain? It isn't easy to read for me

Edit just seen its not just me

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I really like the graphics.

 

[Victoria]

Am I the only one who has trouble identifying terrain? It isn't easy to read for me

It's mainly hills not being clear, leaving on or toggling yields resolves it but agreed it should be clearer.

 

[CPWimmer]

It's mainly hills not being clear, leaving on or toggling yields resolves it but agreed it should be clearer.

Yep, that's exactly how I solve it.
Other people also complain about the Fog of War vs. Undiscovered Territory being too similar - and again turning on tile yields solves that problem as well.

I haven't really been bothered about it, and certainly not since the first month or so after getting used to the look and feel.

 

[trev1972]

Yep, that's exactly how I solve it.
Other people also complain about the Fog of War vs. Undiscovered Territory being too similar - and again turning on tile yields solves that problem as well.

I haven't really been bothered about it, and certainly not since the first month or so after getting used to the look and feel.

I had big issues with that at first but I've sort of gotten used to it.

 

[Greasy Dave]

I love Civ 6. I bought it on day one, and I haven't touched Civ 5 since 6 came out. At this point I'm closing in on 1,000 hours now on 6. I would recommend it to most people at this point. HOWEVER, I would recommend against it for anyone asking something to the effect of "have they improved the late game experience" - because, "No. The end game hasn't really been tightened up yet." I feel that will require an expansion pack (or two) to get where 4 and 5 ended up.

I think Victoria did a good job of summarizing the Pros and Cons of Civ 6. I think for @Shadowhal this would be an enjoyable game, as they have cleaned up most of the things you've read complaints about. And it sounds like your level of play won't run into some of the complaints that people still have about Deity. I think for Greasy Dave it might not be the right game for him, unless I misunderstood his area of concern.

Thanks, that's a good summary. And you didn't misunderstand my area of concern

 

[trev1972]

I started a new game last night (and remember i am NOT a good player)

I went tsl earth, the standard one and immortal, and there are definitely still issues with the AI, i steamrollered the nearby city states and the saudis, and was in the process of steamrollering kongo.

However greece launched a surprise war declaration! and launched a sea invasion with a veritable tonne of horsemen at the nearest city, id got just an archer and warcart (which i upgraded to a knight) nearby as my troops were all killing the kongo.

What an anti climax, they did occasionally shoot at my knight and the city but they spent a lot of time shuffling around then after ten moves despite still having forces to take the city greece offered peace and his luxuries.

That all seems wierd to me....i quit the game anyway as war carts seem OTT

 

[Victoria]

i quit the game anyway as war carts seem OTT

play a game with a poor start civ like Catherine

 

[trev1972]

play a game with a poor start civ like Catherine

Im playing norway on the tsl next, horrible start
I still think war cart is OTT though, especially as they upgrade into knights so you can keep rolling on.

 

[Shadowhal]

So I ended up getting it and am now in my first game playing around how some of the concepts actually work in practice. So far, I'm having a great fun and am optimistic, but only time will tell how much the flaws will detract from my enjoyment over the long run. In terms of the whole package, I'd say Civ VI clicked for me in a way that V never quite did. A different game with different challenges.

Diplomacy was always better than vanilla Civ V (talk about damning with faint praise). Some of the agendas are still stupid, but's gotten a lot better with patches and warmonger penalties have been toned down quite a bit. What remains is the problem hat the AI care still more about what you do in general than what you do to them. If you declare war on a civs mortal enemies you get a diplo hit for attacking somebody instead of better relations for attacking their mortal enemy. Different governments also impact relations far more than having good trade relations.
Tactically they still do some stupid things, but it's not like they never escort settlers. You just get lucky sometimes. The unit upgrade problem was an issue months ago and these days the keep their armies reasonably current. I wouldn't call the AI good, but it's in no way broken or poor enough to make the game unenjoyable, as long as you don't play on Emepror or higher where they start with a bous settler and make early rushes obligatory.

I actually pondered and researched a bit on that one and it looks like the devs programmed something in that regard. I think you do get a positive modifier if you declare on someone's worst enemy (or someone the are actively at war with). On the other hand, you still get a warmonger penalty, though since one the patches that penalty is reduced if the given player had denounced the target or is at war with. And joint war doesn't carry any penalty. One could argue whether the reduction should be greater, given the circumstances and given that the positive modifier will be fixed whereas the negative one will go up if and as you take cities. But something is there.

Oh, and I had a funny start set-up with regards to the other civs, though not quite as bad as some starts I have across here. Could use some love.

Other than that, as many others I am happy about the recently announced add-on. Some features I have always wanted in a civ game. Of course, I will remain cautious how well it will be implemented and will observe the first impressions here when it's out. Just so much more reliable than official reviews.

Either way, thanks again for taking the time to reply and facilitating the fun I already had and that still to come.

 

[Delvi]

Should we expect any AI improvement within the end of this year?

I'm not playing with Civ VI since a couple of months and would like to ask you if was improved the AI for:

- upgrading units
- build a fleet to defend cities
- attack and take cities with walls

 

[Victoria]

Should we expect any AI improvement within the end of this year?

No

I'm not playing with Civ VI since a couple of months and would like to ask you if was improved the AI....

No,
About 5 months ago the AI was 'fixed' to upgrade units more often so it worked better after that, but not 2 months.
The AI will build a few more ships but not really to defend cities.

 

[Delvi]

No


No,
About 5 months ago the AI was 'fixed' to upgrade units more often so it worked better after that, but not 2 months.
The AI will build a few more ships but not really to defend cities.

There is a mod working well for addressing these issues?

 

[Victoria]

There is a mod working well for addressing these issues?

I do not use mods but I doubt a mod would correctly address these issues.

 

[Delvi]

As I understand the only hope is that together with R&F release there will be also a fix of AI (and UI).
I wonder if Firaxis is aware of the main concerns of players.

 

[Victoria]

As I understand the only hope is that together with R&F release there will be also a fix of AI (and UI).
I wonder if Firaxis is aware of the main concerns of players.

Of course they are, but it's not easy to code intelligence so well.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

So I ended up getting it and am now in my first game playing around how some of the concepts actually work in practice. So far, I'm having a great fun and am optimistic, but only time will tell how much the flaws will detract from my enjoyment over the long run. In terms of the whole package, I'd say Civ VI clicked for me in a way that V never quite did. A different game with different challenges.



I actually pondered and researched a bit on that one and it looks like the devs programmed something in that regard. I think you do get a positive modifier if you declare on someone's worst enemy (or someone the are actively at war with). On the other hand, you still get a warmonger penalty, though since one the patches that penalty is reduced if the given player had denounced the target or is at war with. And joint war doesn't carry any penalty. One could argue whether the reduction should be greater, given the circumstances and given that the positive modifier will be fixed whereas the negative one will go up if and as you take cities. But something is there.

Oh, and I had a funny start set-up with regards to the other civs, though not quite as bad as some starts I have across here. Could use some love.

Other than that, as many others I am happy about the recently announced add-on. Some features I have always wanted in a civ game. Of course, I will remain cautious how well it will be implemented and will observe the first impressions here when it's out. Just so much more reliable than official reviews.

Either way, thanks again for taking the time to reply and facilitating the fun I already had and that still to come.

Glad to hear you bought it and are enjoying it.