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Steam - love or hate?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by oogabla, Sep 27, 2010.

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  1. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    No, no it isn't.

    Civilization 5 has Steamworks integrated into it for various networking and stuff which was used for the multiplayer part of Civ5.

    The multiplayer portion of Civ5 is as built into the game as the singleplayer stuff is, you'd have to spend some serious time disabling the multiplayer and ripping stuff out of the game and then putting it back together in order to remove Steamworks.

    This is impractical for many reasons, it will cost Firaxis a lot of money in wages and time paying its employees to do this, the game won't have multiplayer, and I don't even know how they are going to put out this version of Civ5 for sale. 2K would never allow this, the game has already sold many, many copies, and having a non-multiplayer version that doesn't have Steam probably isn't going to sell well enough to justify the effort and expense. It isn't going to happen.

    If you still magically think it can happen then go ahead and write a letter to Firaxis and ask them if it could please be done (and do post a screenshot/scan of the letter before you send it and the reply when you get one).


    Still hasn't stopped Steam being popular, and that is an issue you need to take up with your ISPs (which for the most part seem pretty crappy, and Canadian ones aren't a hell of a lot better either)).

    Having to click three more times is not a good enough reason to make it a major problem.

    An expensive paperweight that takes up extremely little space and only exists digitally. Or are you referring to the physical DVD case, copy and whatever else is in there? Then it isn't really that different from non-Steam games.

    Then take it up with the courts.

    As I've said before, whether you believe it or not doesn't change the reality of the situation. You can plug your ears and yell "la la la la" all you want, but the earth is still going to orbit the sun and Civ5 is still going to require Steam. Its obvious you are simply being stubborn and refusing to listen to anything that disagrees with your opinions, so goodluck with that.

    Civ5 has multiplayer and is the game in question, this isn't about Skyrim.

    I never said that I think it should be mandatory for every game, that is a conclusion you have created yourself. I've shown why it is liked by publishers/developers and why they are likely to use it despite a minority not liking it enough to not purchase the game.

    I have no doubt that Skyrim will use Steam, since Bethesda is using it for Fallout 3 and other games they are publishing (but didn't develop themselves) like Fallout: new Vegas and the upcoming Brink.
     
  2. blind biker

    blind biker King

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    This will never enter their thick skulls. It's hopeless.


    Hopeless I tell you :lol:

    Moderator Action: Inappropriate.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  3. Anthropoid

    Anthropoid Grognard fantome

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    Basically, your stereotyping me and dismissing me by portraying me as being mentally deficient. Basically, that is an infraction of the site rules.

    Moderator Action: Please report a post if you have a problem with it, accusing others of breaking rules is not helpful to the discussion.

    Wrong. I do engage in a great deal of digital commerce. Including some 20 or 25 games purchased via digital download. I do not use Steam.

    Yes, me and 25-30% of the prospective buyers of Skyrim who will not buy it if it requires Steam (plus the other ~25% who say they would prefer not to have to use Steam) are arguing a losing point. That 45% who will buy the game whether it requires Steam or not however! They are the winners!

    How is this an argument against other options of distribution? A game can be available for sale on Steam and also available via other forms of distribution too? Prima facie, MORE forms of distribution would seem to be preferable.

    You seem to think that I am "opposed" to Steam, as in: "Steam must be stopped!" or "Steam must not be used to distribute any games" or something of that sort?

    No. You've read far more into my attitudes than is warranted by what I've written. I believe games should be made available via various distributors, not only one. Steam should be but one of many options for acquring games.

    I do hear some guys arguing "against Steam" by expressing a preference for "physical copies only." I personally see no reason not to make a game available by as many different forms of distribution as possible. If small developers can manage the costs of physical plus digital distribution, then I really don't see what would be the problem for big names like 2K or Bethesda.

    Data to back up that claim?

    The surveys I'm linking to and describing indicate that perhaps 45% of consumers regard Steam as "no problem" if not more positively than that.

    But the data also indicate that the other 55% or so would prefer not to have to use Steam.

    Naturally, I don't expect Valve to be promoting this sort of data, and so such data may have never existed before. But there it is! Free for all to participate in and free for all to view!
     
  4. rkay316

    rkay316 Chieftain

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    I think its a rip that we have to use steam to play this game, I miss the old days when you could buy a game and own the rights to it with steam you buy the game then can not transfer it when your done with it like I was with this trash version of civ after only playing it for 20 hours.
     
  5. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Why not make polls about consumer satisfaction with Steam in places other than Anti-Steam threads attracting the attention of people who have never used Steam?

    Its because you people from the "old days" didn't challenge the EULAs and imagined you'd always be safe that companies have decided to try and enforce them. In many places, you just thought you owned them even back then.
     
  6. Moss

    Moss CFC Scribe Retired Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Okay, one last warning. Please don't flame and/or troll other posters. Also, any comparison between a comment one makes and whether or not they are acting like or working for Steam/Valve (or any other company) is uncalled for. Finally, if you think someone is breaking the rules, report the post. If you are not a moderator, don't act like one and don't accuse others of breaking the rules. Stay on topic or this thread will be closed.
     
  7. Anthropoid

    Anthropoid Grognard fantome

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    Distribute the link to the survey where ever you want Senethro.

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/KGQSLKP

    It is not about "consumer satisfaction with Steam" for people who have never used Steam.

    The intent of that one is to assess how many prospective buyers of Skyrim would prefer not to have to use Steam.

    I'm sure there are a few "prospective buyers" of Skyrim in other places that you might help reach if you'd share the link in other places, such as the Steam forums or where ever it is you are thinking about.
     
  8. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    You never owned the rights, you still get the same license you did before, the only difference is Steam can enforce the EULAs. And almost nobody has challenged EULAs in court (there was one case last year and the challenge won the case, but then lost the appeal and I'm not sure what happened after that)).

    Yeah just putting this out there but using basic statistics knowledge, none of those polls represents anything other than the views of the people who voted in them. They cannot realistically and ethically be used to represent any kind of population that did not vote in them. So please don't.
     
  9. rkay316

    rkay316 Chieftain

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    how do you know what we did in the old days? and by the way we had a store around here where you could sell your old pc games when you were done with them, with steam you cant do that you install to one computer and your done if you get board of the game your out 50 bucks. Bottom line think before you post next time.

    Moderator Action: As a new member, please familiarize yourself with the rules. Your post is fine except for your last line. No need to accuse others of not thinking before they post. Argue the points a person makes, don't get personal.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  10. rkay316

    rkay316 Chieftain

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    Again see my post above this one I could still sell the game when I was done with it. Are you guys really not able to figure this out I would think if you could use a computer you could understand the concept of what im talking about.

    Moderator Action: See my warning in your above post. :)
     
  11. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Yet you tried to use them in lieu of such data anyway in your previous post.

    I will not because even your poll questions/options are flawed or leading, in addition to where you are conducting them.

    Reposting from the bottom of the previous page:
    So you're an idealist that campaigns for the campaigning without any expectation of changing anything?

    How many AAA titles this past year have been DRM-less? How many have not included some kind of online registration/authentication?

    If you're not going to be practical and suggest a realistic outcome Bethesda might adopt, why bother at all?
     
  12. Maniacal

    Maniacal the green Napoleon

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    Because that was like 4 years ago and we're more than a little bit older than that?

    Lucky, I've never seen a used PC game ever. At least not in a chain gaming store, they don't accept used PC games. Thrift stores on the other hand still do, I've gotten a few classics (which I don't play) from there.

    You can install it to as many computers as you want actually.

    Thats a risk of buying any games, and there is always a demo or other ways to research the game you are looking at getting.
     
  13. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    You sold them despite the license to use them frequently stating explicitly that you could not. Now I don't really care about reselling because I rarely buy for more than half of release price, but if you did care you should have spoken up before software companies had accumulated over a decade of precedent.
     
  14. rkay316

    rkay316 Chieftain

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    again your not grapshing what im saying, I was able to resell past games I cannot resell steam games.
     
  15. Anthropoid

    Anthropoid Grognard fantome

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    Why don't you tell me?

    As I said, Paradox, Impulse, Ageod, Matrix, etc. = no DRM. Thus, no DRM would seem to be "practical."

    Are you asserting there is a sampling bias? Because 45% of respondents saying they will buy it whether it requires Steam or not certainly does not suggest such a bias.

    The thing that sales data do not reveal: potential sales lost. Surveys like these are useful for gaining insights into that phenomenon.

    Again, despite this vague and flimy assertion that the construct of the instrument is invalid because it promotes sampling bias, the results run counter to such a claim. If the survey is biased to lead responses, then why did 45% of respondents nonetheless respond in a "pro-Steam" manner?

    Whether those are the exact distributions of people who actually dislike being required to use Steam or who will forego buying a game because it requires Steam is not the point. The point is that, there is a chunk of us who belong in one or both of those two categories. Belittle and dismiss the evidence all you want, it doesn't really matter what you think; you're just one person, apparently in a minority, and you don't work for a game publisher.

    The goal is to pique enough curiosity that maybe some of these publishers start to think about this for themselves, and do their own market research to see if these sorts of numbers from the survey are really going to play out.

    ADDIT:
    No DRM is the change I'm proposing.
     
  16. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    So? You weren't supposed to, you didn't legally challenge for the right to resell, so now that they have ways to stop you reselling, you're less likely to be able to do anything about it.
     
  17. rkay316

    rkay316 Chieftain

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    wow im done arguing with you guys, the two of you are dumb as a bag of rocks.

    Moderator Action: In the future, please heed moderator warnings Don't flame or troll others.
     
  18. Moss

    Moss CFC Scribe Retired Moderator

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    Since this warning was not followed very well. This thread is getting closed.

    There's a slight chance I may repoen it later, in the meantime, please do not start any other threads regarding liking or disliking Steam.
     
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