Steam - love or hate?

Status
Not open for further replies.
If a code doesn't work, I can in fact return a game to Best Buy to get another copy of the game. I tried to get a new code from RTW a number of times. (I think it was around 20 emails to just them). Due to the fact that their support was a bit lacking, they continued to tell me to buy the game, which I had already done. At one point, I was told to contact the retailer, so I did. Steam told me to clear my cache. That is all they would tell me. They would not give me a new code, nor would they refund my money. RTW would not refund my money as they did not sell the game to me. Additionally, their support did not speak English, so relaying my key issue was no small feat. (I am not attempting to sound ethnocentric. RTW support for the U.S. was in India and the many times I "spoke" to someone via chat, I got copy/paste responses that had nothing to do with the issue, so I am guessing that there was a language barrier).

The merchandise in my analogy was not defective. It was, however, missing. I also have to disagree with you in that I do believe that it was Steam's responsibility to issue a new code. Their merchandise may be intangible, but as a retailer, they should have some responsibility to ensure that they delivered the correct merchandise. They had multiple keys. They gave me the incorrect ones. I was asking that they give me the correct keys, which they would not do. They only attempted to fix an issue that was entirely unrelated to my problem.

Steam has a no refund policy right?

I kinda ran into the same situation with a game bought in blockbuster. Can't remember which game though. It came without a cd-key at all. I had to contact the publisher and got one without even having to show my receipt. :o

Now if I didn't get the new cd-key I guess I would have been able to return the game to blockbuster since they sold me a "defective" product that wouldn't work without it.


The no refunds thing is meh I agree on that and there are other smaller issues.

I still think that steam is not the worst thing that has come across my pc. It functions decently with a few errors here and there like every other software product. And compaired to other copyprotection that managed to crash my pc quite often steam is quite preferable.
 
I still don't understand what is unethical and who is acting unethically.

Anthropoid, if you really believe in what you're saying then film yourself going into a lawyers office and what happens when you ask them to take on the case.
 
(...) it is free and ridiculously simple to use? (...)

What is more important: to be free - or offering a free choice of usage - given that fact that you want to play a certain game which require steam (without this conditional meaning certainly someone would think it´s a good idea to write: but you have a free choice, you don´t have to buy the game)? Sometimes - even "something" is free of monetary fees - not everybody wants to use this "something" - because there can still be a "unacceptable price" to pay.

Any annoyance caused by "Steam-required-ness" (copyright pending) is, for me at least, at most equal if not less than the typical annoyance associated with games that use CD-keys or require switching between several disks (or both, God forbid). For the record, these two things don't really bother me either, but Steam bothers me even less.

Bolded the important parts of the statement - it´s true for you - but it´s not true for me and others.
 
What is more important: to be free - or offering a free choice of usage - given that fact that you want to play a certain game which require steam (without this conditional meaning certainly someone would think it´s a good idea to write: but you have a free choice, you don´t have to buy the game)? Sometimes - even "something" is free of monetary fees - not everybody wants to use this "something" - because there can still be a "unacceptable price" to pay.

That was a long and convoluted way of saying "I want to have it my way!".

It's a clear clear choice and easy to make. You either buy it or don't.
 
That was a long and convoluted way of saying "I want to have it my way!".

Really, do you think so? But, nope your are wrong.

It was critique considering the statement that steam is "free" and an attempt to show that being "for free" must not really be the most important fact (there is also another example - but imo using the "free character" of Trojans certainly would have been seen as try to compare steam with such software - and not as example that "to be free" alone is worth nothing - therefore i wanted a different one). The second point was that also "monetary free" has not to mean "free" at all. In general is the price of a product is only a negative "value" which has to be countered by the "positive" value produced by the product - if the price is zero this only means that the price itself doesn´t contribute to the personal value calculation for the product.

The point you see as main point of the text was an example what could be more important - the freedom of choice (and because your are free to install steam in general i needed a conditional constructed argument | and of course this is also the civ5 forum, and at least for some it would be a wanted choice).

It's a clear clear choice and easy to make. You either buy it or don't.

:lol: - What - Steam? I always thought it´s private held ... .
 
Really, do you think so? But, nope your are wrong.

It was critique considering the statement that steam is "free" and an attempt to show that being "for free" must not really be the most important fact (there is also another example - but imo using the "free character" of Trojans certainly would have been seen as try to compare steam with such software - and not as example that "to be free" alone is worth nothing - therefore i wanted a different one). The second point was that also "monetary free" has not to mean "free" at all. In general is the price of a product is only a negative "value" which has to be countered by the "positive" value produced by the product - if the price is zero this only means that the price itself doesn´t contribute to the personal value calculation for the product.

The point you see as main point of the text was an example what could be more important - the freedom of choice (and because your are free to install steam in general i needed a conditional constructed argument | and of course this is also the civ5 forum, and at least for some it would be a wanted choice).



:lol: - What - Steam? I always thought it´s private held ... .

Well if you reaaally wanna discount every human beings subjective points of view and oppinions of value.

Is steam a product? Yes.
Is steam itself free? Yes.
Is there free games on steam? Yes.

Does free steam plus any free game generate any value? Yes, entertainment value for the consumer and publicity/goodwill for valve. You might argue that since it is $ free then it has no $ value but then you would be wrong. PR/Goodwill doesn't normally come for free and neither does gaming entertainment value. Eg. any hour spent on a free steam game would be one less hour spent on a product from the competition that I might have spent money on. In a sense the free product generates intangible values for consumers and company that might lead to increased $ value and/or decreased $ value for competitive companies.

Regarding civ5. Well it's not just civ5 it's a "inseparable" product consisting of civ5 AND steam.

Which is why the choice is between buying the steam/civ5 product or not buying it.

Basically it come's down to: Do you like civ5 more than you dislike steam?

Which is also subjective. Just as allways is entirely based on my point of view.


So... it's just my oppinion. :)

I'm off to celebrate my birthday a bit late. Have a nice day and lets discuss another day. :D
 
If Steam were optional, I would tend to agree with all the sunshine expressed about it. It does sound like there are many great features on Steam, and if I had the choice to agree to using them (at all times) then I'd consider it. It is the fact that it is required for a single-player game (Civ5) which does not intrinsically require networking which I feel is questionable. I realize that some fellows have said "it was built with Steamworks, so it requires networking" but as Coyote has pointed, that may be false, even if it is claimed as such. Having been built with Steamworks, Valve may say it is required, but that does not mean the game actually could not be made to work without ever networking to Steam. Moreover, by definition a single-player computer game doesn't necessitate networking in the same way as an MP game.

I still don't understand what is unethical and who is acting unethically.

Anthropoid, if you really believe in what you're saying then film yourself going into a lawyers office and what happens when you ask them to take on the case.

As I see it, it is unethical to require membership on a particular advertising/marketing site in order to be able to play Civ5, given that Civ5 is not the owner of Steam and Civ5 is a single-player game, for which networking is not integral to playing the game. It is analogous to requiring me to drink my coffee in Steam's shop.

The questionable degree of user autonomy in the funcioning of Steam as a background application, and the reported annoyances therefrom are not part of the principle of the infringement, but they further demonstrate the negative repurcusssions.

My apologies if you have misunderstood my intent, but I will never be taking any legal action against Steam or 2K. For one thing, I did not buy the game, and will not buy the game as long as it requires Steam. For another, even if I did buy the game, why would I bother? Lastly, how would the veraciy of my "real" belief in what I express here be predicated on my taking legal action like that? That is absurdly illogical. That is like telling a little granny that, unless you are going to film yourself going into the lawyers office to sue them, you must not really believe that you want handrails to be installed on this stair case at the public library.

ADDIT: retro-response to Jharrii

It's not only a single-player game. Multi-player is an option. If you do not choose to take advantage of the option, that is entirely up to you, but you cannot make it someone else's responsibility to ensure that you do not.

I should point out that the "positive sunshine" is a valid counterpoint to a "negative thunderstorm."

Then provide Steam as an _option_ for thos who wish to make use of the multiplayer aspect of Civ5. Requring it for the game in general is not legitimated by the fact that MP is one optional aspect of the game as a whole.
 
If Steam were optional, I could agree with all the positive sunshine expressed about it. It is merely the fact that it is required for a single-player game which does not intrinsically require networking which I feel is questionable.

It's not only a single-player game. Multi-player is an option. If you do not choose to take advantage of the option, that is entirely up to you, but you cannot make it someone else's responsibility to ensure that you do not.

I should point out that the "positive sunshine" is a valid counterpoint to a "negative thunderstorm." :)
 
I hate Steam. For some reason every few hours it forgets I have logged in, and I cannot play civ any more until I get online again. This really gets in the way of the way I play civ, and has driven me back to civ 4 a fair few times.
 
I hate Steam. For some reason every few hours it forgets I have logged in, and I cannot play civ any more until I get online again. This really gets in the way of the way I play civ, and has driven me back to civ 4 a fair few times.

Your issue is indicative of losing network connectivity to the internet. Try playing in offline mode or check your internet connection.

Curious, how does that get in the way of the way you play Civ? Or do you simply mean that it interrupts your game?
 
Your issue is indicative of losing network connectivity to the internet. Try playing in offline mode or check your internet connection.

Curious, how does that get in the way of the way you play Civ? Or do you simply mean that it interrupts your game?

I often play where I have no access to the internet. It works in off line mode for a while, and then will crash, and when I try to start again it says "Steam - Error This game is currently unavailable. Please try again at another time." until I get back on line. I have tried restarting the computer.
 
As I see it, it is unethical to require membership on a particular advertising/marketing site in order to be able to play Civ5, given that Civ5 is not the owner of Steam and Civ5 is a single-player game, for which networking is not integral to playing the game. It is analogous to requiring me to drink my coffee in Steam's shop.
Why is that unethical? Who is acting unethically?

My apologies if you have misunderstood my intent, but I will never be taking any legal action against Steam or 2K. For one thing, I did not buy the game, and will not buy the game as long as it requires Steam. For another, even if I did buy the game, why would I bother? Lastly, how would the veraciy of my "real" belief in what I express here be predicated on my taking legal action like that? That is absurdly illogical. That is like telling a little granny that, unless you are going to film yourself going into the lawyers office to sue them, you must not really believe that you want handrails to be installed on this stair case at the public library.

There are public safety laws which have well established precedents with some variation between nations. Your analogy is flawed.

I think your belief is spurious and a convenient justification to occupy the moral high ground over choosing not to buy a video game.

You have yet to clarify your ethical argument. You appear to have no real faith in your legal argument.

Why can't you just say that you want something and are disappointed that you can't have it? Why all these empty words?
 
Does free steam plus any free game generate any value? Yes,

In the sum of both it´s the truth for you - but not true in general.

Yes, entertainment value for the consumer and publicity/goodwill for valve. You might argue that since it is $ free then it has no $ value but then you would be wrong. PR/Goodwill doesn't normally come for free and neither does gaming entertainment value. Eg. any hour spent on a free steam game would be one less hour spent on a product from the competition that I might have spent money on. In a sense the free product generates intangible values for consumers and company that might lead to increased $ value and/or decreased $ value for competitive companies.

have i wrote something which contradicts with this?

Of course every additional free games (limited to steam) adds zero (unlikely) or more likely a positive value to the calculations of steams value (customer wise). In general includes the price of a product no information about the value of the product for someone - the price someone is willing to pay for it defines his/her personal value for the product*. And I can´t remember that i said a product which cost 0$ has no value - i said the price (as part of the product) adds nothing to the value calculation. [you confused me a bit with the "You might argue" formulation]

And also of course should the positive value Valve gains by providing a free game at least reach the same level the value the money which was necessary to developed the product or/and which can´t no longer gained because it was provided for free has for Valve. [at least if it was an economic decision]

* honest question to all - what is a reasonable price you would be willing to pay Valve to use Steam pro month? (completely independent from the question if this ever might happen)

Regarding civ5. Well it's not just civ5 it's a "inseparable" product consisting of civ5 AND steam.

If it´s really "inseparable" (technical wise) is at least questionable - see the example i made before. It´s at least not avaibable separable (publisher wise) - therefore steam is part of the product - also legit part of customer review and discussion - and of course also part of the "value calculation". Which of course leads - at least at the moment - to the only valid conclusion:

Basically it come's down to: Do you like civ5 more than you dislike steam?

Which is also subjective.

And the equation in the first sentence also defines the fair price.

Nice birthday party :)
 
I often play where I have no access to the internet. It works in off line mode for a while, and then will crash, and when I try to start again it says "Steam - Error This game is currently unavailable. Please try again at another time." until I get back on line. I have tried restarting the computer.

It almost sounds like you are connecting to a very faint or erratic wireless network. Maybe one that you have connected to in the past and set to auto-connect. Have you tried to completely disable your network from the taskbar?

I have to say that I tested offline mode yesterday and did not have any issues doing so. I disabled my network, Steam detected this and asked if I wanted to go into offline mode, I said yes, and away I went.

Again, I am not a Steam "expert." Just a Steam user with a long IT background. I can only offer suggestions based upon my experience. Your best bet may ultimately be to get on the Steam forums and troubleshoot it there.
 
It almost sounds like you are connecting to a very faint or erratic wireless network. Maybe one that you have connected to in the past and set to auto-connect. Have you tried to completely disable your network from the taskbar?

I have to say that I tested offline mode yesterday and did not have any issues doing so. I disabled my network, Steam detected this and asked if I wanted to go into offline mode, I said yes, and away I went.

Again, I am not a Steam "expert." Just a Steam user with a long IT background. I can only offer suggestions based upon my experience. Your best bet may ultimately be to get on the Steam forums and troubleshoot it there.

I am pretty sure it it not that. I have manually disabled wireless networking, and it works in off line mode for a while, then fails. This sometimes happens when I am online, but then it is fine as I can just log on again and it works.
 
I am pretty sure it it not that. I have manually disabled wireless networking, and it works in off line mode for a while, then fails. This sometimes happens when I am online, but then it is fine as I can just log on again and it works.

Sorry, Samson. I wish I had more for you. There seems to be something tertiary going on there. I would hit the Steam boards. I am sure that there are people that have had similar issues abound that are more than willing to help.
 
Why can't you just say that you want something and are disappointed that you can't have it? Why all these empty words?

The only thing I want is for computer-gaming to remain fun. I see the development, expansion, and gaining market dominance of Steam, and their ability to require people to be members in order to play single-player games by virtue of the EULA they enforce through the publisher for whom they distribute to be an alarming trend.

You seem to think that, if I'm not willing to file suit, then I have no right to say that I think something is wrong. How pathetically dismissive if not totalitarian: 'you either cannot be honest, legitimate or correct since you are only willing to speak out and not willing to actually sue.'

It must be a wonderful black-and-white simulacrum you have concocted in your mind. 'If a company wants to enforce a particular agreement on users, then it is by definition "right," and unless those users are willing to file suit, then any argument they might make is clearly wrong . . .' It is precisely this sort of attitude which is allowing such infringements on consumer rights.

As to my "wanting something." No, I do not want the game if that is what you mean. Even before it was released I did not really want the game. Either I've outgrown them, or just played it so much it is impossible for me to look past the massive breaches in the merit of the series in general, but in any event, had Civ5 not had absolutely stunningly rave reviews, I may have never bought it in the first place. Even with mods, I finally gave up on Civ4, the reasons for that are a subject for a different thread. Suffice to say: I do not want Civ5, especially since it requires Steam. If it did not require Steam, I'd perhaps buy it simply as a gesture of support to the series; however having read about the changes in the game, I now believe the issues that eventually led me to be sick of Civ4 have been much exacerbated in Civ5, so I might even be reluctant if Civ5 were not Steam compulsory.

Now, the "ethics" of it. Steam is a distributor with competitors. Members of Steam are probabilistically more likely to purchase future games from Steam but not buy games from other distributors. You can analogize those "Discount Cards" that grocers, and retailers have adopted. You "join" their discount club, and then any time you shop there, and present your discount card, it tallies up your total purchases and gives you some degree of discount on current purchases. Gamersgate also has something similar to this: blue chips I believe they call them. The more games you buy from them, and the more games you have bought which you rate, the more blue chips you accumulate and eventually you'll have enough to buy a whole game.

You might think that the deal Steam has with 2K with respect to Civ5 is comparable, but it involves a crucial distinction with two levels: (1) it is (evidently, and that is the hingepoint of my argument) impossible to get a license to play Civ5 without joining Steam's "discount club." There is nothing unethical per se about a publisher allowing sole distributor rights to one distributor; for a mass-distribution game like Civ5 it seems to me unlikely to be a good decision, but in any event, it is certainly done rather commonly. For example many Matrix games could only be bought (at least historically, that may be changing) from the Matrix store. However, there is an added level of restriction which makes this restriction to Steam only distribution unethical. Assuming one chooses to agree to the EULA in order to get a playable copy of Civ5, it is then (2) impossible to play the game without continuing to remain a member of Steam, and that second point is critical to the unethicality of it. Being required to patronize Steam because of 2K's relationship to them through development and distribution would be one thing, even the issue of Steam being the sole distributor per se is not fundamentally problematic. But there is no other way to retain one's rights to play Civ5, unless one retains ones membership on the Steam network, and continues to allow their application to estalish connection to that network.

Customers are buying Civ5, and they can reasonably be expected to be able to play it in legal and fair ways forever, or at least for the life of the product they bought. However, the current distribution arrangement takes away that expectation. You can only continue to enjoy your fair use as long as you remain a Steam member and continue to expose yourself to their network. This exposes the consumer to an unknown host of enforced conditions in future as preconditions to be able to play Civ5 now and in future. In effect, you did not buy a license to play Civ5; you bought a license to play Civ5 as long as you remain a Steam member in good standing. This constitutes a fundamental breach of fair use of a single-player computer game, which I have analogized as "only being able to read the book while you are in the proprietors coffee shop." Once you leave the shop, i.e., stop being a member of Steam, your book will disappear, i.e., you will no longer own the license to play Civ5 which you paid for.

Apart from the fact that I had one very bad experience with them in the past, and the various complaints I read on forums, I know nothing about Valve's/Steam's overall corporate profile. In sum, I do not know if they support worker oppression, or oppose gay marriages, or any other of a host of ideological/political issues which might make a difference to a particular consumer as far as patronizing them. Certainly one could if it mattered to them, do their homework and decide (a) Valve seems to fit my notion of the "good company" that I am happy to patronize or (b) Valve does not fit, and either buy Civ5 or not based on such an assessment. But that says nothing about how Valve will reflect any particular customer's moral compass in future; there are myriad transformations which could occur in any company in future which might provoke a once loyal customer to cease their membership/patronization, and the right to chose to do so and still retain the right to make fair use of products purchased from/through them in past is a fundamental of consumer rights. Simply because you decide you no longer can abide a particular company from whom you purchased a product is not a legitimate basis for said company to have designed a means to prevent you from being able to continue to use the product. That is the essence of the unethicality: in order to continue to own your Civ5 license, you must agree to continue to patronize Steam/Valve, you have no choice. If you decide at some point in future that you wish to cease patronizing Steam/Valve for some legitimate reason, you will forfeit your capacity to use the product you paid for.

This sort of distribution effectively forces the consumer to remain loyal to Steam as a precondition to continue to use the product they bought. Were it an intrinsically and explicitly networked product (e.g., Magick the Gathering Online comes to mind) this would be one thing; continued membership on Steam would obviously be requisite. But a single-player computer game that comes on a disk and which installs software on a users machine as a way to enable the user to consume the copyrighted material is not intrinsically a networked product, though clearly Steam/2K have made it a de facto requisite-networked product.

Producers, publishers and distributors do not have a right to force consumer loyalty as a precondition to using a product they bought. Such could give consumer goods marketers political and social powers that are fair beyond what is reasonable for them to be able to protect their copyrights. The fact the sheer numbers and market share of Steam gets tossed out as an argument of their legitimacy is an example of how this sort of power can be misused.

The EULA which Civ5 buyers are agreeing to at present could place them into a moral/practical dilemma in future. Imagine: Sally bought Civ5 and loves it. She enjoys her use of it tremendously. She even likes Steam and its services. Six months pass. Steam adopts some new corporate policy which Sally abhors (e.g., they decide to buy all the plastic they use to make their shrink-wrap from a particular SE Asian producer who oppresses its workers . . . there are myriad possibilities). Sally now faces a dilemma: if I want to be able to continue to enjoy the product I paid for (Civ5) I have to go on belonging to and patronizing a company whose corporate ethics I abhor. In such an instance, can Sally expect to get her money back for the product she paid for? I very much doubt that Steam or 2K would ever agree to such an arrangement, and yet if they do not, then the EULA they are imposing might force some customers to lose the rights of the product they paid for. One does not even need to get into the ambiguous issue of future changes making a current customer dislike Steam and want to be able to stop patronizing them and not have to lose their game; what if Steam simply goes bellyup or gets acquired by some new firm which decides not to honor the previous deals? Not to mention the fact that, a single-player computer game does not require a network connection, but one must agree to a future of regular networking to Steam in order to be able to play single-player Civ5. Forcing people to do things that are beyond the reasonable scope of use of a product is also unethical.

These are the unethical short-term and long-term infringements which Steam-Only imposes on Civ5 purchasers.

Perhaps it is legal, as presently defined, and perhaps a large majority of gamers are so fickle and short-sighted that they do not really care if their games are being leased, and their capacity to decide not to patronize the lessor is fundamentally removed unless they are also willing to forego continued use the product they paid for.
 
The only thing I want is for computer-gaming to remain fun. I see the development, expansion, and gaining market dominance of Steam, and their ability to require people to be members in order to play single-player games by virtue of the EULA they enforce through the publisher for whom they distribute to be an alarming trend.

You seem to think that, if I'm not willing to file suit, then I have no right to say that I think something is wrong. How pathetically dismissive if not totalitarian: 'you either cannot be honest, legitimate or correct since you are only willing to speak out and not willing to actually sue.'

It must be a wonderful black-and-white simulacrum you have concocted in your mind. 'If a company wants to enforce a particular agreement on users, then it is by definition "right," and unless those users are willing to file suit, then any argument they might make is clearly wrong . . .' It is precisely this sort of attitude which is allowing such infringements on consumer rights.

As to my "wanting something." No, I do not want the game if that is what you mean. Even before it was released I did not really want the game. Either I've outgrown them, or just played it so much it is impossible for me to look past the massive breaches in the merit of the series in general, but in any event, had Civ5 not had absolutely stunningly rave reviews, I may have never bought it in the first place. Even with mods, I finally gave up on Civ4, the reasons for that are a subject for a different thread. Suffice to say: I do not want Civ5, especially since it requires Steam. If it did not require Steam, I'd perhaps buy it simply as a gesture of support to the series; however having read about the changes in the game, I now believe the issues that eventually led me to be sick of Civ4 have been much exacerbated in Civ5, so I might even be reluctant if Civ5 were not Steam compulsory.

Now, the "ethics" of it. Steam is a distributor with competitors. Members of Steam are probabilistically more likely to purchase future games from Steam but not buy games from other distributors. You can analogize those "Discount Cards" that grocers, and retailers have adopted. You "join" their discount club, and then any time you shop there, and present your discount card, it tallies up your total purchases and gives you some degree of discount on current purchases. Gamersgate also has something similar to this: blue chips I believe they call them. The more games you buy from them, and the more games you have bought which you rate, the more blue chips you accumulate and eventually you'll have enough to buy a whole game.

You might think that the deal Steam has with 2K with respect to Civ5 is comparable, but it involves a crucial distinction with two levels: (1) it is (evidently, and that is the hingepoint of my argument) impossible to get a license to play Civ5 without joining Steam's "discount club." There is nothing unethical per se about a publisher allowing sole distributor rights to one distributor; for a mass-distribution game like Civ5 it seems to me unlikely to be a good decision, but in any event, it is certainly done rather commonly. For example many Matrix games could only be bought (at least historically, that may be changing) from the Matrix store. However, there is an added level of restriction which makes this restriction to Steam only distribution unethical. Assuming one chooses to agree to the EULA in order to get a playable copy of Civ5, it is then (2) impossible to play the game without continuing to remain a member of Steam, and that second point is critical to the unethicality of it. Being required to patronize Steam because of 2K's relationship to them through development and distribution would be one thing, even the issue of Steam being the sole distributor per se is not fundamentally problematic. But there is no other way to retain one's rights to play Civ5, unless one retains ones membership on the Steam network, and continues to allow their application to estalish connection to that network.

Customers are buying Civ5, and they can reasonably be expected to be able to play it in legal and fair ways forever, or at least for the life of the product they bought. However, the current distribution arrangement takes away that expectation. You can only continue to enjoy your fair use as long as you remain a Steam member and continue to expose yourself to their network. This exposes the consumer to an unknown host of enforced conditions in future as preconditions to be able to play Civ5 now and in future. In effect, you did not buy a license to play Civ5; you bought a license to play Civ5 as long as you remain a Steam member in good standing. This constitutes a fundamental breach of fair use of a single-player computer game, which I have analogized as "only being able to read the book while you are in the proprietors coffee shop." Once you leave the shop, i.e., stop being a member of Steam, your book will disappear, i.e., you will no longer own the license to play Civ5 which you paid for.

Apart from the fact that I had one very bad experience with them in the past, and the various complaints I read on forums, I know nothing about Valve's/Steam's overall corporate profile. In sum, I do not know if they support worker oppression, or oppose gay marriages, or any other of a host of ideological/political issues which might make a difference to a particular consumer as far as patronizing them. Certainly one could if it mattered to them, do their homework and decide (a) Valve seems to fit my notion of the "good company" that I am happy to patronize or (b) Valve does not fit, and either buy Civ5 or not based on such an assessment. But that says nothing about how Valve will reflect any particular customer's moral compass in future; there are myriad transformations which could occur in any company in future which might provoke a once loyal customer to cease their membership/patronization, and the right to chose to do so and still retain the right to make fair use of products purchased from/through them in past is a fundamental of consumer rights. Simply because you decide you no longer can abide a particular company from whom you purchased a product is not a legitimate basis for said company to have designed a means to prevent you from being able to continue to use the product. That is the essence of the unethicality: in order to continue to own your Civ5 license, you must agree to continue to patronize Steam/Valve, you have no choice. If you decide at some point in future that you wish to cease patronizing Steam/Valve for some legitimate reason, you will forfeit your capacity to use the product you paid for.

While I do imagine it to be the case at present, this sort of distribution effectively forces the consumer to remain loyal to Steam as a precondition to continue to use the product they paid for. Were it an intrinsically and explicitly networked product (e.g., Magick the Gathering Online comes to mind) this would be one thing. But a single-player computer game that comes on a disk and which installs software on a users machine as a way to enable to the users to consume the copyrighted material is not intrinsically a networked product, though clearly Steam/2K have made it a de facto requisite networked product.

Producers, publishers and distributors do not have a right to extort consumers loyalty as a precondition to using a product they paid. Such could give consumer goods marketers political and social powers that are fair beyond what is reasonable for them to be able to protect their copyrights. The fact the sheer numbers and market share of Steam gets tossed out as an argument of their legitimacy is an example of how this sort of power can be misused.

The EULA which Civ5 buyers are agreeing to at present could place them into a moral/practical dilemma in future. Imagine: Sally bought Civ5 and loves it. She enjoys her use of it tremendously. She even likes Steam and its services. Six months pass. Steam adopts some new corporate policy which Sally abhors (e.g., they decide to buy all the plastic they use to make their shrink-wrap from a particular SE Asian producer who oppresses its workers . . . there are myriad possibilities). Sally now faces a dilemma: if I want to be able to continue to enjoy the product I paid for (Civ5) I have to go on belonging to and patronizing a company whose corporate ethics I abhor. In such an instance, can Sally expect to get her money back for the product she paid for? I very much doubt that Steam or 2K would ever agree to such an arrangement, and yet if they do not, then the EULA they are imposing might force some customers to lose the rights of the product they paid for. One does not even need to get into the ambiguous issue of future changes making a current customer dislike Steam and want to be able to stop patronizing them and not have to lose their game; what if Steam simply goes bellyup or gets acquired by some new firm which decides not to honor the previous deals? Not to mention the fact that, a single-player computer game does not require a network connection, but one must agree to a future of regular networking to Steam in order to be able to play single-player Civ5. Forcing people to do things that are beyond the reasonable scope of use of a product is also unethical.

These are the unethical short-term and long-term infringements which Steam-Only imposes on Civ5 purchasers.

Perhaps it is legal, as presently defined, and perhaps a large majority of gamers are so fickle and short-sighted that they do not really care if their games are being leased, and their capacity to decide not to patronize the lessor is fundamentally removed unless they are also willing to forego continued use the product they paid for.

You can always download the steamless version. Some people do...
Moderator Action: Don't promote piracy here!
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
You can always download the steamless version. Some people do...

You mean commit piracy?

If there is a legal Steam-less version, fine: the argument I'm making is completely moot.

If what you are referring to is an illegal version, then the argument remains valid.

ADDIT: I strongly scorn anyone who ever, under any conditions commits intellectual property piracy. No game is so important to any of us, that it is worth breaching the copyright. Buy it legally, or don't buy it. If the conditions you are being expected to meet (including if it is simply priced too high) are exorbitant in your view, then speak out against those conditions. There is no excuse for piracy, EVER.
 
To the people saying that civ5 uses steamworks thereby requiring steam to run: no other API on the planet requires an application be running to use it. Civ5 requiring steam is something that was deliberately put in. If Valve cared about the API more than selling steam they'd simply release the DLL files which any game developer could include and install if they weren't already there. This is how every other API works. Why not steam? Because Valve wants people to register for steam. Nothing more.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom