Moosezilla
Grognard Warlord
When I try to Dl v0-8-3 I get 404ed. please PM me a copy!
Steph's mod 5 : early testing
- Thread starter Steph
- Start date
When I try to Dl v0-8-3 I get 404ed. please PM me a copy!
I fixed the link in the OP. At least for me, the download starts normally.
Jorsalfare
Prince
I have played two games (bad weather outside) since installing.
I played the Norse (of course) with 11 rival civs and warlord difficulty. After ca. 70 turns I entered the next era as number two. I reloaded, and everything looked fine. I ended my turn and waited until AI was done, then a message about treasury running low, and just when the game was about to hand the control over to me, it crashed to desktop (only Microsofts message "We're sorry for the inconvinience"). I reloaded several times, but the same thing happened - both with and without the Expanded editor running in the background. When the first civ entered a new era, I reloaded and continued playing without any problems. I noticed that when the science advisor popped up after my last first-era tech was researched, his recommandation was quote:"LATE BRONZE AGE". If I chose one of the other available techs, it would be listed as second in the queue.
I then started a new game as Germania, the same settings as my first - except I had "No Barbarians" to see if the whimpy AI would upgrade its settler-recruits. (there were still goody huts, though). This game also crashed when I was about to start on my second turn in the next era. Reloading the game didn't help - it crashed just like the first game.
Anyway - the AI built the barracks and upgraded the recruits. I didn't see any of them selling the barracks. Two or Three civs had their settler-recruits idling in the capital without upgrading them, but there were enemies nearby (barbarians 8-9 tiles away), so that might have been the reason. Other civs upgraded to settlers and founded new cities alright. BTW: Have anyone tried to give the settlers attack and/or defence-strength to see if that makes the AI somewhat "braver"?
The first era of the game was un-eventful. Few improvements available, slow workers, and economy in ruins (first game). I switched to Monarchy once it was researched, but that was a bad idea - due to the heavy unit maintanance cost. I had to disband several units and let the recruits sit un-upgraded in the cities to avoid bankrupcy. In my second game I treated Monarchy as a "shunned" government, and there were no credit-crunch as long as I sticked to despotism. During most of the first era, I just clicked "next turn" without having to do anything, and then wait for 3-4 minutes for the AI to finish its turn (after disabling all animations and "show xxxx's
moves", it was significantly faster).It appears to me that AI quickly builds up a large military, so the autoproduced units becomes more like a drop in the ocean. Some had 40+ units after50-60 turns.
I think I might have clicked "Update" a few times, since the "ta-ra"-sound alerted me whenever some civ entered a new era. At the start of the game only the first era was visible in science advisor, but just prior to the crash, all four eras were visible. Can updating too often cause problems? Another thing I noticed is that when starting a new game my civ-name (for example Germania) is replaced with DEBUG. After the first update it changes to normal ("Active Unit"-box bottom right).
I have both regular Conquest and Civ3 Complete installed, but I'm using Complete when playing this mod, since the editor refuses to acknowledge my Regular (preferred) Conquest-install. Both are 1.22. OS is WinXP MCE SP3.
If I want to try tweaking the mod, is it the generated .biq-file I should edit? and would the changes be overwritten when the editor updates?
I played the Norse (of course) with 11 rival civs and warlord difficulty. After ca. 70 turns I entered the next era as number two. I reloaded, and everything looked fine. I ended my turn and waited until AI was done, then a message about treasury running low, and just when the game was about to hand the control over to me, it crashed to desktop (only Microsofts message "We're sorry for the inconvinience"). I reloaded several times, but the same thing happened - both with and without the Expanded editor running in the background. When the first civ entered a new era, I reloaded and continued playing without any problems. I noticed that when the science advisor popped up after my last first-era tech was researched, his recommandation was quote:"LATE BRONZE AGE". If I chose one of the other available techs, it would be listed as second in the queue.
I then started a new game as Germania, the same settings as my first - except I had "No Barbarians" to see if the whimpy AI would upgrade its settler-recruits. (there were still goody huts, though). This game also crashed when I was about to start on my second turn in the next era. Reloading the game didn't help - it crashed just like the first game.
Anyway - the AI built the barracks and upgraded the recruits. I didn't see any of them selling the barracks. Two or Three civs had their settler-recruits idling in the capital without upgrading them, but there were enemies nearby (barbarians 8-9 tiles away), so that might have been the reason. Other civs upgraded to settlers and founded new cities alright. BTW: Have anyone tried to give the settlers attack and/or defence-strength to see if that makes the AI somewhat "braver"?
The first era of the game was un-eventful. Few improvements available, slow workers, and economy in ruins (first game). I switched to Monarchy once it was researched, but that was a bad idea - due to the heavy unit maintanance cost. I had to disband several units and let the recruits sit un-upgraded in the cities to avoid bankrupcy. In my second game I treated Monarchy as a "shunned" government, and there were no credit-crunch as long as I sticked to despotism. During most of the first era, I just clicked "next turn" without having to do anything, and then wait for 3-4 minutes for the AI to finish its turn (after disabling all animations and "show xxxx's
moves", it was significantly faster).It appears to me that AI quickly builds up a large military, so the autoproduced units becomes more like a drop in the ocean. Some had 40+ units after50-60 turns.
I think I might have clicked "Update" a few times, since the "ta-ra"-sound alerted me whenever some civ entered a new era. At the start of the game only the first era was visible in science advisor, but just prior to the crash, all four eras were visible. Can updating too often cause problems? Another thing I noticed is that when starting a new game my civ-name (for example Germania) is replaced with DEBUG. After the first update it changes to normal ("Active Unit"-box bottom right).
I have both regular Conquest and Civ3 Complete installed, but I'm using Complete when playing this mod, since the editor refuses to acknowledge my Regular (preferred) Conquest-install. Both are 1.22. OS is WinXP MCE SP3.
If I want to try tweaking the mod, is it the generated .biq-file I should edit? and would the changes be overwritten when the editor updates?
Thanks for the comment.
To be sure:
- Civ A reached era 2, it's the first to reach era 2. You generate save --> it works
- You reached era 2, you are second to do so, you generate save (but didn't do it earlier) --> it crashes systematically?
For the "LATE BRONZE AGE", it's a mandatory tech that everyone should get, I use it to control the change of era.
I also need to rework the maintenance cost it seems. How many units and cities did you have with your maintenance problem?
As a side not, the first era is there more or less for exploration, starting to get the auto production buildings in place, fighting some barbarians. It's more or less design for a "city state" style of play. So it's relatively normal you don't have much to do.
Normally, you should play with the small window with the nb of ellapsed turns always on top, and reload every time you hear the "tada" and see the red text, so everytime any civ reaches a new era.
If you don't do this, the AI may run out of tech to research, or his units may become obsolete but the new units are not added to the rules.
If you look at the civ pedia, you'll see it's relatively empty initially, and you will have new unis when moving forward through the eras, and some obsolete units disappearing.
You should also notice changes in the name of the civ and leaders, the traits... BTW, did you get the splash screen with your civ informations for the next era?
However, perhaps it can create some side effect that could explain some of the crash (some internal differences?)
If you want, you can use my editor to tweak directly the biqx file.
So the crash happened every time, and you had no choice but to reload an earlier save?
So, to avoid the previous bug, instead of generating a new save when you reached a new era, you did that when the first civ reached a new era?
To be sure:
- Civ A reached era 2, it's the first to reach era 2. You generate save --> it works
- You reached era 2, you are second to do so, you generate save (but didn't do it earlier) --> it crashes systematically?
For the "LATE BRONZE AGE", it's a mandatory tech that everyone should get, I use it to control the change of era.
Where you the first to reach this era?
The AI not upgrading their settlers, were they always the same civilizations?
May be I need to increase the cost of the spearmen and warriors, so the auto production is more important. Direct production of units is there mostly to avoid a systematic crash if no unit are available.
I also need to rework the maintenance cost it seems. How many units and cities did you have with your maintenance problem?
As a side not, the first era is there more or less for exploration, starting to get the auto production buildings in place, fighting some barbarians. It's more or less design for a "city state" style of play. So it's relatively normal you don't have much to do.
It should be safe to reload often. Actually in can help the AI, since it will auto upgrade the units he may have forgotten to upgrade earlier.
Normally, you should play with the small window with the nb of ellapsed turns always on top, and reload every time you hear the "tada" and see the red text, so everytime any civ reaches a new era.
If you don't do this, the AI may run out of tech to research, or his units may become obsolete but the new units are not added to the rules.
If you look at the civ pedia, you'll see it's relatively empty initially, and you will have new unis when moving forward through the eras, and some obsolete units disappearing.
You should also notice changes in the name of the civ and leaders, the traits... BTW, did you get the splash screen with your civ informations for the next era?
Don't forget the gameis in debug mod for the moment, so it's normal your civ name is replaced. This way we can see what the AI is doing with the units.
However, perhaps it can create some side effect that could explain some of the crash (some internal differences?)
If you edit the biq, it will be only for the start of the game, it's not use after. The monitor directly creates new autosave from the biqx, replacing all the embedded rules with updates rules.
If you want, you can use my editor to tweak directly the biqx file.
Jorsalfare
Prince
Sorry for answering without quote (preview didn't work as I expected).
First question: "So the crash happened every time, and you had no choice but to reload an earlier save?"
Yes, every time, and to desktop. The editor didn't crash, but I restarted it before I reloaded the game (expandedGame.sav). No error-messages from Civ3, only the MS one.
2. A: In both games another civ was first into the next era (second game it was two civs before me). Every time I received the alert (the monitor-window is visible all the time) I clicked "update" and reloaded ExpandedGame.sav. It was when my own civ reached the next era it crashed. Not the turn I reached the new era, but the following one.
3.See above.
4.Q:The AI not upgrading their settlers, were they always the same civilizations?
Yes. The ones with barbarians in the area. Second game I saw a few settler-recruits idling (not the same civs as in the first game), but their civ was under attack or had barbarians in the area. The third wave of settlers had just been recruitet when the game crashed.
5.Q:"How many units and cities did you have with your maintenance problem?"
I had 4 cities (income 36), 8 workers, 7 warriors and 1 javelineer. -2gold in building maintanance, and -24 gold to units.
6.Q: did you get the splash screen with your civ informations for the next era?
Well, yes and no. I got the splash screen, but for another civilization (Africa, I think). It morphed nicely into the next era-splash, though.
Did you test the mod on Civ3 Complete or regular Conquest? If it was Conquest, maybe I should try Conquest too (if it's possible). I assume that I've gotten all the files in the right place, since I was able to play the first era.
Hope this was not too incoherent......
First question: "So the crash happened every time, and you had no choice but to reload an earlier save?"
Yes, every time, and to desktop. The editor didn't crash, but I restarted it before I reloaded the game (expandedGame.sav). No error-messages from Civ3, only the MS one.
2. A: In both games another civ was first into the next era (second game it was two civs before me). Every time I received the alert (the monitor-window is visible all the time) I clicked "update" and reloaded ExpandedGame.sav. It was when my own civ reached the next era it crashed. Not the turn I reached the new era, but the following one.
3.See above.
4.Q:The AI not upgrading their settlers, were they always the same civilizations?
Yes. The ones with barbarians in the area. Second game I saw a few settler-recruits idling (not the same civs as in the first game), but their civ was under attack or had barbarians in the area. The third wave of settlers had just been recruitet when the game crashed.
5.Q:"How many units and cities did you have with your maintenance problem?"
I had 4 cities (income 36), 8 workers, 7 warriors and 1 javelineer. -2gold in building maintanance, and -24 gold to units.
6.Q: did you get the splash screen with your civ informations for the next era?
Well, yes and no. I got the splash screen, but for another civilization (Africa, I think). It morphed nicely into the next era-splash, though.
Did you test the mod on Civ3 Complete or regular Conquest? If it was Conquest, maybe I should try Conquest too (if it's possible). I assume that I've gotten all the files in the right place, since I was able to play the first era.
Hope this was not too incoherent......
Oh.. So everytime your civ reaches a new era it crashed? You couldn't play in era 2 yourself?
Oh? What civ where you playing when you got the wrong splash screen?
I have conquest. But I'm not sure it makes a big difference
Moosezilla
Grognard Warlord
When I try to load I get:Missing entry in "text\Pedialcons.txt": ICON_ Tried to attach screenshot but did not? UL
Be more specific. What did you do exactly?
Jorsalfare
Prince
That's correct - I got to choose the first tech in era two, but it crashed before I could start the next turn. I tried several times and chose different techs, but it crashed like clockwork.. The editor-monitor didn't update its status-window before the crash (the Turn number).
Both Germania and Norse. With the germans I got the splash from Arameans to "Edomites lead by Esau". With the norse, it was definetly not a "Norse" splash, but I'm not sure which it was - sorry. I really like the new era-splashes.
I tried to play in Conquest, and the editor generated the biq and saved it to the Conquest-install. When it was watching the autosaves during the game however, it was looking at the Complete-installation only and didn't update its status-window. Therefore I couldn't update and reload.
I'll try to play with only two other civs to see if the crash could be related to a specific civ. I know it's a long shot, by i'll try it anyway.
A side-note regarding upgrade-paths: When playing Africans, the heavy infantry-recruit couldn't be upgraded - even after all techs in the first era was researched (this game was played in Conquest). Norse and Germania (played in Complete) worked OK. I know, this is not a important issue at this stage, but I thougth you might want to know anyway.
I will try to have a look at the settings tomorrow, if I can find what is wrong.
The good news is the crash seem to be systematic. Where you building something specific in your cities?
It could help if you can post an autosav just before the turn or two before you get to a new era. This way I go follow the monitor in debug mod, see what it does, and if there is an obvious error.
Also, if the game crashes and you want to restart, don't forget to clean your autosave folder. Since the engine looks at the creation of new autosave file, if the file is already there (you start a few turns before the crash) it can ignore it.
I fixed the heavy recruit for Africans.
And I think I know where the problem with the era splash is. The monitor doesn't create the scenario path folder correctly, something is missing. I think you should always get the splash screen of the arabia civ.
The good news is the crash seem to be systematic. Where you building something specific in your cities?
It could help if you can post an autosav just before the turn or two before you get to a new era. This way I go follow the monitor in debug mod, see what it does, and if there is an obvious error.
Also, if the game crashes and you want to restart, don't forget to clean your autosave folder. Since the engine looks at the creation of new autosave file, if the file is already there (you start a few turns before the crash) it can ignore it.
I fixed the heavy recruit for Africans.
And I think I know where the problem with the era splash is. The monitor doesn't create the scenario path folder correctly, something is missing. I think you should always get the splash screen of the arabia civ.
Jorsalfare
Prince
Update:
I started a new game as britons with only Iberians and Mycanea as rivals. Chieftain level made me the first to era two, and you know what? NO CRASH! It crashed when I entered a city where "icon 0" was beeing built: "Missing file - Animname_PRTO_ The game will now exit". Probably a glitch in the build-queue update. After reloading, I right-clicked the city and managed to change production that way, and I could play on. The second civ reached era two, I updated and reloaded and continued playing without problems.
The civs in this game are those with the most "complete" citylist in Citylist.csv. Of course, I don't know if that has anything to do with the No-Crash behaviour, just thougth I should mention it.
Good to at last be able to build settlers!
I started a new game as britons with only Iberians and Mycanea as rivals. Chieftain level made me the first to era two, and you know what? NO CRASH! It crashed when I entered a city where "icon 0" was beeing built: "Missing file - Animname_PRTO_ The game will now exit". Probably a glitch in the build-queue update. After reloading, I right-clicked the city and managed to change production that way, and I could play on. The second civ reached era two, I updated and reloaded and continued playing without problems.
The civs in this game are those with the most "complete" citylist in Citylist.csv. Of course, I don't know if that has anything to do with the No-Crash behaviour, just thougth I should mention it.
Good to at last be able to build settlers!
I wonder what unit it could be. I checked the files with my editor, it doesn't detect a pediaicon error, and I don't see what unit could be "icon 0". Do you have a save?
No, it shouldn't. city list just update the names of the cities. It shouldn't have an effect when you build something.
Don't hesitate to post save file or biq when you discover a problem to help me reproduce it and correct it.
This mod will be more difficult to correct than regular mod, since it has many more sources of errors.
I have updated the link to the editor and the scenario.
It should correct the problem of the era splash screen.
It required modifiying the scenario search folder associate to each civilization/era, and make it bigger (64 characters instead of 32).
So the new scenario loads only with the new version of the editor, and if you try to load older scenario with new editor it work well
You don't have to restart a game. Just donwload new version of editor, start it, select "resume expanded game", select the new scenario biqx file, start CivIII, load your saved game, and then immediately update.
It should correct your save.
It should correct the problem of the era splash screen.
It required modifiying the scenario search folder associate to each civilization/era, and make it bigger (64 characters instead of 32).
So the new scenario loads only with the new version of the editor, and if you try to load older scenario with new editor it work well
You don't have to restart a game. Just donwload new version of editor, start it, select "resume expanded game", select the new scenario biqx file, start CivIII, load your saved game, and then immediately update.
It should correct your save.
Jorsalfare
Prince
The ExpandedGame.sav attached used to be 10MB, so I'm not certain it was compressed correctly. This save is from the turn prior to the crash in era 3. I also have a regular save (saved with Civ3 - not the editor) from the Germania-game which is 422 kB. This save is from the turn before the consistent crashing occurs. I don't know if that would be of any help? The initial biq-file is only 170kB
I downloaded the new version of the editor and the biqx-file, but the editor freezes whenever I try to open a file (both the new and the old biqx). Tried all three options in the first menu-box, but no matter which I try, it freezes when trying to load the file.
And now: Another update.
I continued my game as britons through era 2 with some crashes when i was clicking specialists or managing citizens in city screen (more on that later). I could reload and resume without problems, though. It seemed also as if the game no longer were in debug-mode after reload, because whenever I tried to check one of the AI's towns, the game crashed to desktop - no Civ3 error messages. I also experienced a nostalgia-moment when my artisans offered to add an extension to my palace. Haven't seen that for a looooong time
.
One of my cities went into negative production. I've never seen that before. The turns to complete-calculations were also screwed up (I later discovered that the Shaman in this city has negative production-bonus, but this city had 3 shields of production, so I don't know why it went negative). Reloading the game didn't resolve the problem, so I changed production to a worker, and the problem disappeared. This was weird....
When I entered era 3 as the first civ I updated and reloaded, and everything worked well for 7 turns. Then one of the AI-civs reached era 3, and after updating and reloading, suddenly my people started to eat 3 food per turn (they were supposed to do that from the beginning of era 3, right?). I never made it to the next turn, since the game crashed to desktop just before I was getting in control (some improvements were finished, but after that it crashed).
I've also discovered something that at least has caused some of the crashes. It's involving the citizens-list and the popheads.pcx. From some testing I found out that the method Civ3 uses to determine which pophead to display, is that it looks at the citizens position in the editor-list. The default citizen (Laborer) in position 1 occupies the first 16 rows, and the specialists occupies one each. That means citizen nr. 2 uses heads from row 17 in popheads.pcx. The Civilopedia-entry (CTZN_xxxxx) doesn't seem do anything. I've deleted the entry in a test-map, and everything worked as normal.
I'm sure you know what I'm getting at: The biqx-file has 61 citizens in the list. This means that the popheads.pcx should have had 76 rows, but the one in use only has 37. I wouldn't be surprised if this can cause random crashes, maybe also when the AI tries to use a specialist which is out of range.
I attach the ExpandedGame.sav from the "newest" crash. - saved the turn prior to the crash.
PS. Sorry for the long post.
I downloaded the new version of the editor and the biqx-file, but the editor freezes whenever I try to open a file (both the new and the old biqx). Tried all three options in the first menu-box, but no matter which I try, it freezes when trying to load the file.
And now: Another update.
I continued my game as britons through era 2 with some crashes when i was clicking specialists or managing citizens in city screen (more on that later). I could reload and resume without problems, though. It seemed also as if the game no longer were in debug-mode after reload, because whenever I tried to check one of the AI's towns, the game crashed to desktop - no Civ3 error messages. I also experienced a nostalgia-moment when my artisans offered to add an extension to my palace. Haven't seen that for a looooong time
.One of my cities went into negative production. I've never seen that before. The turns to complete-calculations were also screwed up (I later discovered that the Shaman in this city has negative production-bonus, but this city had 3 shields of production, so I don't know why it went negative). Reloading the game didn't resolve the problem, so I changed production to a worker, and the problem disappeared. This was weird....
When I entered era 3 as the first civ I updated and reloaded, and everything worked well for 7 turns. Then one of the AI-civs reached era 3, and after updating and reloading, suddenly my people started to eat 3 food per turn (they were supposed to do that from the beginning of era 3, right?). I never made it to the next turn, since the game crashed to desktop just before I was getting in control (some improvements were finished, but after that it crashed).
I've also discovered something that at least has caused some of the crashes. It's involving the citizens-list and the popheads.pcx. From some testing I found out that the method Civ3 uses to determine which pophead to display, is that it looks at the citizens position in the editor-list. The default citizen (Laborer) in position 1 occupies the first 16 rows, and the specialists occupies one each. That means citizen nr. 2 uses heads from row 17 in popheads.pcx. The Civilopedia-entry (CTZN_xxxxx) doesn't seem do anything. I've deleted the entry in a test-map, and everything worked as normal.
I'm sure you know what I'm getting at: The biqx-file has 61 citizens in the list. This means that the popheads.pcx should have had 76 rows, but the one in use only has 37. I wouldn't be surprised if this can cause random crashes, maybe also when the AI tries to use a specialist which is out of range.
I attach the ExpandedGame.sav from the "newest" crash. - saved the turn prior to the crash.
PS. Sorry for the long post.
Jorsalfare
Prince
I just discovered there are era-specific pophead.pcx-files. It appears that the files for era 1 is OK, but those for era 2 and 3 only has 37 rows. To me it seems like the citizen-list is common for all eras. Maybe this is why there were no city-screen related crashes prior to era 2?
EDIT: I copied the PopHeads.pcx from era 1 to era 2 & 3, and reloaded the save attached in my previous post. The game did no longer crash in city screen when giving citizens orders. It still crashed when going for next turn.
EDIT: I copied the PopHeads.pcx from era 1 to era 2 & 3, and reloaded the save attached in my previous post. The game did no longer crash in city screen when giving citizens orders. It still crashed when going for next turn.
Saved game compress very well, so it's not surprising. The Germania-game save would be useful too.
Really? I just checked again, and if I use the editor from the 2011_08_09 zip, and the corresponding biqx (also named 2011_08_09) it works fine.
I'll check that. Could be tested with a normal game, just changing the first specialist to negative production bonus and see what happens. Perhaps the game doesn't work well when using negative specialist?
Normally the palace is disabled if you play a modded game. To my knowledge, my mod is the only one with working palace.I also experienced a nostalgia-moment when my artisans offered to add an extension to my palace. Haven't seen that for a looooong time
No, this is normal. Some parts of the game, like food consumption, move bonus for roads, output of irrigation, etc. are general, not civ specific.
For your leader graphics, the game engine knows that your civ is era 2, and display the proper graphics. But for the food consumption, it's not supposed to be be era specific. So for that, my monitor is computing an "average era", and base the food consumption on that.
So your citizens will start eating 3 food per turn when the majority of the civilizations in game will be in an era where the food consumption is 3 food per turn.
Good finding. I reused some graphics from another mod, but perhaps it wasn't for conquest but a previous version and I didn't notice. I'll have to double check.
Jorsalfare
Prince
I just re-downloaded the new editor-version, and now it seems to work. When I load a game and click "Update" I get an error-message about invalid path. Is it maybe necessary to generate a new autosave before the update-function works?
Attached the Germania-save. 1 turn left before Monarchy is researched and dawn of a new era - and crash.
Attached the Germania-save. 1 turn left before Monarchy is researched and dawn of a new era - and crash.
Moosezilla
Grognard Warlord
I Dl'ed your 21 files and extracted as instructed, 20 in SH and biq in scenarios. I had your Editor on but had not tried to "start expanded game". I started c3c chose civ content, chose SH; result-error mentioned above. I thought it must be because of not having Editor start game but... when I try that I get an exception message when I "generate a new biq". Boy,it reminds me "I don't know nuttin'!"
Yes, just play one turn, and generate a new save to update.
Moosezilla
Grognard Warlord
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