Strange Diplomatic Decisions From AI

[drages]

Hey ppl!

I am playing at Prince difficulty and i am number 2 at the game. Renaissance era, map commitinas..

So I like wars, i closed all the victories but domination. But i limit my borders and does not grow unlimited..

After i found out my borders i want to have, i just try to balance other countries. For example at my land, China grows up bigger and take many cities from every one, including russian and german capital. I started a long for and gave their capitals back with 1-2 cities. But even so, german is guarded and after 5 turns russia started war even she is very weak and the power difference is huge between us.

So i think the diplomacy point should be much more liberating cities. I want to have them allies with me, but they think i am warmonger.. but i made war to save them.. against their common foe..

and i see many weak countries start wars against me without a chance to win..

So what do you about this? Sorry for bad english btw..

Thx!

 

[Tarzan737]

and i see many weak countries start wars against me without a chance to win..

i don´t like this either, extremely small civs that kan get bribed to war or declare war against you, if you have tanks and they spearmans doesent seem to stop this.
but it´s cool and make more sense that small civs join stronger as vassals to have a chance.

But if you threat small civs good they shouldnt declare war against you because you are way ahead or stronger.

 

[bigcat88]

Strange, if all goes like you describe - AI will try to be your friends till Renaissance(play with transparent diplomacy and look at modifiers). And denouncements usually starts when Ideologies adopted.
Need more info to say what you doing wrong. Maybe demanding tributes from CS that are protected by small civs? That's the easiest way to get war. But it can help you to not increase warmonger score. Just instead of declaring war on China demand 2-3 tributes from 2 CS they protect. Before that the best option is to make some Defence Pacts with some civs to get "fighting against common foe" modifier. Did you denounce China when they start conquering others? Did you protect CS that small AI protect to get positive diplo modifier?

 

[Tarzan737]

But i did some tests with ige editor, i gave me all technologies and everything so i was completely overpowered, i have like modern armor and other civs start to found cities and have warriors.
it just take some turns until the first civ starts war to me ( i suppose this is because im overpowered?)

ofcourse in a normal game everything looks different but it´s just the idea that a very small and weak civ declare war just because im strong.

In real world it´s like Estonia declare war against USA because they have a Great military power. would that happen?

 

[Tarzan737]

in my latest game now Darius denounced me some turns after declaration of friendship?

we are at the same continent but between us we have 2 other civilizations and the negative is territorial disputes? how can it be?

i checked relations when we where friends and the only negative was different social policies.

i have a screenshot but don´t know how to upload.

 

[bigcat88]

AI see no chances to win against you so just declare war. In one my game(in October?) was the same, don't remember what civ, but that was warmonger AI that captures all small civs, so me and other AI just declare war on him with no chances to win. And lost ofc

What you describe is an emulator of life, like Sims but in Civilization. If there were a victory condition type like "civilization that will earn XXX gold per citizen will win" or "civilization that earn happiness X per citizen will win" - then I agree with you. But there are not any victory condition, no chances to win in your situation, so only last try, last war...

 

[bigcat88]

in my latest game now Darius denounced me some turns after declaration of friendship?

we are at the same continent but between us we have 2 other civilizations and the negative is territorial disputes? how can it be?

i checked relations when we where friends and the only negative was different social policies.

i have a screenshot but don´t know how to upload.

that strange, but many people complain about this in last versions. In my 2(or 3?) games on last patch I didn't see such behaviour.
If you have logs enabled, interesting too see numbers from DiplomacyAI_GlobalRelations_Log.csv .

 

[Moi Magnus]

In real world it´s like Estonia declare war against USA because they have a Great military power. would that happen?

True, but in the real world there is no "victory condition" system.
(And we're kind of restricted by Civ initial design "Victory or Defeat, no half victory")

If we choose the AI to be "realistic and RP" then people complains about the AI not being competitive enough.
If we choose the AI to be "competitive" then the AI will do suicidal wars when desesperate since it is statistically its best hope of victory.
Balance between the two is complex

 

[Stalker0]

The best ai response would be just nuke the winner until they can’t win

 

[Tarzan737]

True, but in the real world there is no "victory condition" system.
(And we're kind of restricted by Civ initial design "Victory or Defeat, no half victory")

If we choose the AI to be "realistic and RP" then people complains about the AI not being competitive enough.
If we choose the AI to be "competitive" then the AI will do suicidal wars when desesperate since it is statistically its best hope of victory.
Balance between the two is complex

I understand it´s hard to balance, Somethimes i just don´t know if it´s intended or not.
it´s just so frustrating when i have a big enemy i want to fight or just play peace game and then suddenly a small civ comes from nowhere and declares war!
it´s frustrating when they does it because im strong but i hate it when they do it because of someone pay them.
they should just not accept it. It would make more sense if a small civ with a lot of resources,money etc..pay a bigger civ (or equal) to declare war to someone they don´t like for any reason. If a civilization is to small/Weak it just shouldn´t declare war

 

[Gazebo]

The current system is balanced between realism and competitiveness. I don't intend to change it.

G

 

[tu_79]

I understand it´s hard to balance, Somethimes i just don´t know if it´s intended or not.
it´s just so frustrating when i have a big enemy i want to fight or just play peace game and then suddenly a small civ comes from nowhere and declares war!
it´s frustrating when they does it because im strong but i hate it when they do it because of someone pay them.
they should just not accept it. It would make more sense if a small civ with a lot of resources,money etc..pay a bigger civ (or equal) to declare war to someone they don´t like for any reason. If a civilization is to small/Weak it just shouldn´t declare war

Why? Because it breaks immersion? You are playing a game. That weak AI who declares war on you with no hopes of winning is slowing you so the other neighbours can do something against you. So, the better you are faring, the more opposition you face. I think it's fair, and gives a challenging game in return. There are other ways to gang up against the leader, less forced, but those required to include new features, and G has done the best he could do just tweaking AI behaviour.

You are surprised because you didn't expect that reaction, but after a few games you'll understand why AI does this or that. Then, you'll be able to plan more educated strategies.