Strange Game as Japan...

[The Q-Meister]

Playing Japan in a Monarch game, after having conquered China and Southeast Asia, I decided to deal with Mongolia as everyone knows they are a constant pest and play much like the barbs do (don't really fight to take my cities; just look for ways to pillage or take my workers) with elephants I take care of them easily but then I start getting the dreaded "Unstable" rating. I check my interior minister and I have 3 stars in everything, yet I am still in "Unstable"

I already have courthouses in most of my cities (making them in Mongolia but this takes time with Mongolia's undeveloped land and small population) have a Summer Palace, my GNP is in the green and my economy must be growing as I just incorporated 4 new cities in my empire...yet the stability rating says "Unstable" and eventually my empire breaks off into civil war despite the interior advisor saying that I have 3 stars in everything.

This is the first game where this has happened to me ; where my empire went into civil war without one of the indicators going down to 1 or 2 stars so I can see what exactly the problem is. About invading Mongolia, I understand this may not be in Japan's Historical land area, but that alone shouldn't be the reason my empire disintegrates? I mean it cannot be that unrealistic that an aggressive Mongolia who declares war on everybody finally gets what he has been asking for.

Anyway, I have reloaded the game a few times now and the same thing happens. Any ideas?

 

[Harrier]

Three stars in any of the categories, indicates a stability value that can be either positive or negative. It is the mid point star rating.

Two stars is definately negative and four stars definately positive, but three can be either.

 

[The Q-Meister]

Weird, always assumed 3 stars was "OK". So three stars can mean Stable or your empire is falling apart? Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me.

I mean, for your empire to fall apart doesn't there have to be a clear reason as to why this is happening? Losing cities, foreign culture, bad economy, etc.

 

[phantom59]

Weird, always assumed 3 stars was "OK". So three stars can mean Stable or your empire is falling apart? Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me.

I mean, for your empire to fall apart doesn't there have to be a clear reason as to why this is happening? Losing cities, foreign culture, bad economy, etc.

Over expansion perhaps?

 

[Harrier]

Weird, always assumed 3 stars was "OK". So three stars can mean Stable or your empire is falling apart? Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me.

No. Three stars for a catagory means that, that part of your stability is either Shaky or Stable. Similar to looking at your score on the main map and seeing the ball on a flat surface, except that is your overall stability value.

I can see why you assumed that though, as that is what I thought initially.

 

[The Q-Meister]

Over expansion perhaps?

Perhaps...but ever see Whitefire's giga empire of Japan controlling over 50% of the entire world??

Like I said, I had courthouses, temples, granaries in most of my cities, my GNP rate was booming. And as far as expansion goes, I had China, Southeast Asia, and Mongolia out of necessity since they wouldn't stop bothering me. I had none of the Pacific islands Japan historically had and honestly I didn't have THAT much more than Japan's greatest historical extent around WWII. That empire had southeast Asia, parts of China and parts of Mongolia as well as the Pacific islands which I did not have.

 

[ltccone]

I'm betting it is because those Mongol cities are outside of your historical area. Can you load a prior save and torch the Mongol cities instead?

ltccone

 

[The Q-Meister]

Yea that's what I think it is too. But I don't think that should be the only reason my empire falls apart. Like I said before, others have managed to build a HUGE Japanese Empire FAR outside of their historical empire than what I did with adjacent Mongolia.

 

[ltccone]

Yea that's what I think it is too. But I don't think that should be the only reason my empire falls apart. Like I said before, others have managed to build a HUGE Japanese Empire FAR outside of their historical empire than what I did with adjacent Mongolia.

It is probably some sort of percentage. To have much outside of the historical area you need to have ALL of the historical area to counterbalance it.

ltccone

 

[Whitefire]

Perhaps...but ever see Whitefire's giga empire of Japan controlling over 50% of the entire world??

That was several versions ago. Since then, Rhye has implemented several fixes to stability to prevent such empires.

Yea that's what I think it is too. But I don't think that should be the only reason my empire falls apart. Like I said before, others have managed to build a HUGE Japanese Empire FAR outside of their historical empire than what I did with adjacent Mongolia.

It's not just a hit from over expansion. You have to remember that city unrest, city unhappiness, foreign culture in a city, etc. all give stability hits after you take a city.

 

[Yarnosh]

Just a little bump on this thread... I'm having a very similar problem with Japan and stability. I finally got the yr. 1500 part of the UHV (by 2 points, and then Arabia leap frogged me the next turn!!!) It is around 1700 and I've just got Korea and China. I let Mongolia be since that is outside my historical area. My economy is booming, I'm at the top in research. I've only been hit by plague once. Trade is good. I'm producing lots. My adviser shows 3 stars in each area except foreign where I have 4 stars... and yet I'm still teetering between shaky and unstable. Even the 2/3 UHV Golden age only put me on the edge of Shaky/Stable. But eventually I fall back down to unstable again. And if I try changing civics or anything else that would involve anarchy, I will usually lose the 3 or 4 Chinese cities.

I get that 3 stars could mean negative, but this is ridiculous. If I'm going to be unstable, it should be clear. 3,3,3,3,4 stars isn't clear. It would be nice if there was a little more granularity in the adviser screen.

Any help woudl be appreciated. I'm not very experienced with RFC, but I did read through the stability guide on the Wiki.

-yarnosh

 

[Rhye]

please post your save, so that I can hopefully see where the stars are doing wrong

 

[Yarnosh]

please post your save, so that I can hopefully see where the stars are doing wrong

Ok, it was too big to upload to the forum. Here's the URL: http://student.pnca.edu/~misleb/japan.civwarlordssave

-matthew

 

[The Q-Meister]

Hey Rhye, I suppose it won't matter in a few days now, but I remember you saying that the vanilla version was "broken" Could this be the reason why this (and other) strange things have been happening in a few of my games?

If so then that just gives me yet another reason to get my hands on Bts!

 

[Grotius]

For what it's worth, I had something similar happen in BtS RFC. I was top of the leaderboard (thus winning the first of Japan's three victory conditions in 1500 AD), built several Wonders, economy humming along. I did have one plague in the 1400s, but I thought I'd recovered. In the early 1500s AD, I had 3 stars in everything until my economy setting went to two stars. Can this happen because you have the "wrong" Civic? Or was it just not enough economic output? My Civics were Representation, Bureaucracy, Decentralized, Free Religion, Commonwealth, and Emancipation (I think).

The other possibility is that I'd over-expanded, but I was careful to build new cities only in the areas occupied by Japan in the WW2 era: Manchuria, the Phillipines, and one city in the Dutch East Indies (Java). I had fought no wars. Khmer was my vassal. Where did I go wrong?

 

[Yarnosh]

I wonder if it is a happiness/approval thing. I understand that you have to have, what, a 75% approval rating or else you get --? I wasn't really paying much attention to building things like pavilions and such to keep my people more happy than necessary. I looked and my approval was around 60%. Maybe playing the whole game (up to 1500 or so) under 75% approval takes a huge hit that doesn't show up in the adviser.... eventually bringing you to "unstable."

Man, this mod is HARD. I never really spent much time min/maxing until I played this mod. Now I play ever turn like it is the last.

 

[Ryry]

The two times I have played Japan and won I was shaky for a while, but never collapsed. I think it is mainly an over expansion thing. RFC is all about stopping huge empires, and to win the first UHV condition I always bust out a huge empire in China. All those cities are in revolt for a while, and they are all 90+% Chinese for a long time, and they probably don't have your state religion. That is why I like to whip them down, and then rebuild them up (Slavery!).

That is my idea... Ryry

 

[Lone Wolf]

Yes, of all the civs in RFC, Japan is usually the one with stability problems. I've seen Japan collapse for virtually no reason - one turn Japan was on its islands, turn after that - no Japan, just independent cities.

 

[rapiduser]

there was a bug in RiseandFall.py
The Stability was incorrect calculatet as Japan.
Look at the Bug Report Thread on Site 6.

There is the Solution.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I am playing Warlords and there seems to be no such lines in RiseandFall.py.