Strategic resources too scarce

[Mike C]

Ok I have about had it. During my past 2 games I have had no iron, no saltpeter, no rubber, no coal anywhere near my staring postion.

How am I suppose to survive? I have tried my best to trade for resources but its kinda goddamn hard when you don't have any to trade for yourself.

Firaxis really needs to fix this. Somehow hardcode it so that there is a startegic resource of value in the first 2 eras within reasonable reach of a player from his start point.

I am getting sick of this.

 

[White Raven]

During my past 2 games I have had no iron, no saltpeter, no rubber, no coal anywhere near my staring postion.

Okay, just to make sure you understand the game, do you understand that strategic resources do not appear on the map until you have researched the tech that allows you to use them?

Second, map size and the number of civilizations affects the resource distribution. If you are playing on a large map with few civilizations, you aren't given much. On the other hand, 16 civs on a small map results in "ore aplenty".

You may already know this. If so, all I can say is "I haven't had problems".


White Raven
War never changes

 

[Gdiguy]

i can say that in 2 games, i haven't gotten coal once... first game i was able to trade for about 5 turns before they cancelled, this other game, there is no coal (and only 1 iron) on an entire continent

 

[Mike C]

Originally posted by White Raven

Okay, just to make sure you understand the game, do you understand that strategic resources do not appear on the map until you have researched the tech that allows you to use them?

Second, map size and the number of civilizations affects the resource distribution. If you are playing on a large map with few civilizations, you aren't given much. On the other hand, 16 civs on a small map results in "ore aplenty".

You may already know this. If so, all I can say is "I haven't had problems".


White Raven
War never changes

I am not an idiot. I have all sorts of problems.

The worst thing is, you don't know you are in a hopless situation until you have spent significant time in the game. You don't have iron, so you hope and hope that there is some saltpeter around. There isn't any and you hope and hope there is some coal around. But in my game there ain't jack on the my half of the continent and now I am trying to use hoplites while they ram gunpowerder cavalry down my throat.

Its not a good feeling to have wasted so much time only to find you can't possibly win.

 

[HomeAir]

One other thing that you might want to consider. In searching for a resource that you don't have in your homeland and you have the technology to access it, have you traded world maps with the AI in your area or do scouting missions to see if it has "popped-up" in their territory. I was looking for oil since my supply ran out and couldn't see any on the map until I rolled some tanks into the area to take some land. Also found some far away in someone's territory by getting a new map from them (world map).

 

[Astreos]

Personally, I think that's part of the fun when trying to acquire resources by trade or conquest. But I guess it could be damn frustrating sometimes. Well, the editor probably help. I didn't try this yet but you can raise the appearance ratio of natural resources by a thousand or something.:crazyeyes There will be more of that resource popping out that way. Now days I rarely play without custom rules

 

[chazmyrr]

The resource I always have a problem with is coal. The typical distribution I get seems to be 1 coal per 3-4 civilizations. Generally the lucky few only have 1 coal in the civilization so can't trade for it. On a side note, why did they even bother with the Iron Works wonder? It's not like you're ever going to actually find both iron and coal in the same city radius without a scenario. Even then, it's likely to exhaust before you can build the wonder.

 

[Pragmatic]

I'm tempted to alter the rules, so that the appearance rate of strategic resources is slightly higher, and the exhaustion rate is almost non-existent.

However, I've heard that causes a bug where you can't change what the Science advisor suggests when selecting new techs....

 

[Mike C]

Originally posted by Pragmatic
I'm tempted to alter the rules, so that the appearance rate of strategic resources is slightly higher, and the exhaustion rate is almost non-existent.

However, I've heard that causes a bug where you can't change what the Science advisor suggests when selecting new techs....

I'll try to do that. I don't really care what my advisors spew out...

In my mind startegic resources should not cripple a player, but merely prevent the turtleing effect that you could do in Civ 2 (turtle and tech up like crazy and then stomp everyone with tanks). Force the player to engage in active landgrabs early on.

However, I really would like to see some hardcoding for a single type of resource appearing close to the starting position of a player so that at the very least, he/she can trade his way to build and army before going conquest.

As of right now. I have zip so I have to conquer to get resources. But if I have no resources to begin with, I can't build technologically adept army. A catch 22.

 

[BigBirdZ28]

This is definately a poblem.

Im on a random medium-large sized map with 12 other civs & i'm trying to win the space race in this one.

I have explored every inch of the map & there is not 1 single oil resource. There are only 2 coal resources. Is there any way that I can edit the map/saved game to add a few more resources??????

I put in a lot of time perfecting this game & it's all wasted .

 

[Northstar5757]

If strategic resources were easy to get they wouldn't be very strategic. Might as well just take them out of the game then since they would serve no purpose.

Pursonally I think they make the game much more interesting. Why even require coal to build railroads if its so easy to get or anyother resource for that matter.

 

[Northstar5757]

About Iron works....

I've only finished one game (warlord) and I built the Iron Works. So it can't be that unlikely....

BTW it is a kick ass wonder.

 

[rubble]

in my current game i have had no stratigic resources in my imediate area... playing a large map with only 5 civs... i started on a small continent (island?) with the aztecs as my neighbour, and as i would soon find out i had no horses (aztecs got the only one on our island), no iron and latter on no coal... but instead of quiting i have played on and eventually found another continent (the rest of the map was made up of one huge continent with the other civs) which i was able to mostly settle the good spots before the other civs found it... but all i found here was iron (and ivory)... anyway its 1500 and i am keeping pace with the other civs (was able to trade for coal and the aztec city with horses changed to my side) and i have just dicovered i have plently of rubber and i am just getting ready to kick some aztec butt... without resources it has been a challenging but interesting game and i have learned alot about the importance of diplomacy (butt kissing?) in order to keep me in the race... i cant wait to find out where the oil will (or will not) be

 

[J Fred Muggs]

Yep couldn't agree more. Been saying this for a while. It isn't like I'm asking for the resources every other square or even that close to my start area. But after putting hours upon hours into a game only to find it's on the other side of the planet, if I can find it at all, it's frustarting as hell. It shouldn't matter what my game preferences are as to how much there is, I like a relaxing game with 3-4 other civs on a huge map. I'm also damned tired of having speciel units that by the time I find the magic ingredients they're antiques, if I ever get them at all. I could go on and on but I won't.

If anybody figures out the step by step on how to tweak this problem, I think it worthy of being in the mod list. Only two mods will I do till the patch: label the resources and this one if anybody does it.

 

[Trancas]

I've just played the game twice. I find it much more dificult than the previous versions. Anyway, regarding to strategic resources:

1) My opinion is that thay ADD something VERY GOOD to the game. Really.

2) They must be uncommon, or else would serve no purpose.

3) However, certain oddities must be removed. On my second game, one the AIs had FOUR iron all adjacent to each other. I had none.

4) Regarding number 3: the other civs however managed to get some of it. So it's NOT impossible. It's just harder.

5) And I DID see the irrigation bug MANY times.

Be well
Civ 3 rocks
Just needs a patch

Trancas

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

I've also seen resource lumping - Americans and Aztecs with 3-4 saltpeter each, close together, nothing anywhere else. I agree somewhat with Mike that the resource scarcity is a problem - in reality any civilization with a reasonable amount of territory has historically been able to provide for most of its needs from within it's own borders. A more realistic way to model this would be to have the resources more plentiful, but visible only to a special unit - say a mining engineer. Once a civ discovers an advance, the resource becomes visible to the unit, but the unit can't see it unless it's standing on the same tile. A civ would have to invest time and resources to build mining engineers and explore likely areas for iron, uranium, oil, etc. There should also be a requirement for some sort of infrastructure built by the engineer - mine, derrick, etc. - in order for the resource to be harvested, in addition to the road requirement. Aggressive targeting of these improvements and engineers by the AI would necessitate the posting of military units for protection as well. Trade is still useful, but it shouldn't be a player's sole recourse, especially considering the current behavior of the AI with regards to trade.

 

[Kiki]

I would like it if Firaxis didn't make SR's imbalancing.

I would like it that you CAN build units even without the necessary SRs but you have a +100% production pentalty for doing so. It makes it more fairer by allowing you or the computer to build modern units too without them but not nearly as fast as you can. They also cost twice as much more to buy.

This will make it fair by allowing you to build things yet the SRs are still important.

 

[BigBirdZ28]

They add an excellent element to the game.

I just wish they wouldnt run out & they would be just a bit more plentiful, like instead of 2 sites for coal on a medium to large map, why not 4 ?

 

[kelper]

I don't know why you guys are having problems, in this last game I'm playing (warlard, 4 players, tiny map), all the civs left (3 left) have had every resource. This includes uranium and aluminum!

Anyway, back to this game, its already taken me close to 24 hours...sheesh

later

 

[Akka]

The problem with SR is not that they are too scarce, it's more than they are not evenly distributed, and often comes in big patches.
In the game I'm currently playing, I'm the only civ to have coal. Why ? Because there is EIGHT coal ressources in a 5x5 square. All the coal of the planet between two of my cities. That's just insane.