[GS] Strategy Gamer review of June 2019 Patch

Do you agree with Strategy Gamer’s review of the June 2019 Patch?

  • Yes - I too am mostly disappointed by the Patch

    Votes: 7 13.7%
  • No - I am mostly happy with the Patch

    Votes: 30 58.8%
  • Kinda - I’m on the fence

    Votes: 5 9.8%
  • Er... I refuse to have my complex opinions reduced to 3 options on an internet poll

    Votes: 9 17.6%

  • Total voters
    51

acluewithout

Deity
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
3,470
Strategy Gamer has a review of the June 2019 Patch. Link.

SG is mostly pretty critical of the Patch. The more I’ve thought about, the more I think there are a lot of criticism in the article I’d agree with - although maybe I don’t quite agree with the overall tone.

A bright spot is that @Sostratus epic IZ thread got a reference. More please.
 
I would not call that article critical - it points out some negatives, but it does not ignore the positives. The criticism towards AI has nothing to do with the patch itself. I am quite happy with the patch myself, especially the improved value of flat land with the changes to lumbermills. No more of the idiocy of cavalry storming city walls with battering rams is also nice, if only from a historical immersion perspective. I voted for the last option though, polls are almost always oversimplified.
 
While all of the issues brought up have merit, the author is making mountains out of molehills or complaining about things that are slowly evolving across multiple patches (AI), in my opinion.
 
Does the patch fix every single issue with the game? - No
Does pretty much every change in the patch improve the game is some way? - Yes

So, for me it's a good patch, and it looks like they'll keep working on improving the game at least for a little while more.
 
I agree with @Chefofrats that the article isn't really all that critical as much as it is accurate. Production does seem a lot more mindless now, diplomacy and AI are indeed still messes, and the cost reduction of walls was very accurately described as minimal (I actually wondered why even bother reducing by 5 production when I read the notes). So if anyone was looking for improvement in those areas, this article accurately tells them it was either oversimplified or improvement isn't there. Being spammed with demands for 2 gp/turn by the AI that do nothing if you refuse them all is not an improvement over being offered 1 gp/turn for your luxuries every time you hit end turn.

The article does seem to fall into the trap though of reporting on what players are complaining about online rather than coming to their own opinions, so I'm not sure how useful it is for anyone who is looking for something more informed than just a summary of online complaints. At least when it talks about what has changed it appears to do so accurately, which makes it better than most video game articles I've read. That's a super low bar though.
 
I agree with @Chefofrats that the article isn't really all that critical as much as it is accurate. Production does seem a lot more mindless now, diplomacy and AI are indeed still messes, and the cost reduction of walls was very accurately described as minimal (I actually wondered why even bother reducing by 5 production when I read the notes). So if anyone was looking for improvement in those areas, this article accurately tells them it was either oversimplified or improvement isn't there. Being spammed with demands for 2 gp/turn by the AI that do nothing if you refuse them all is not an improvement over being offered 1 gp/turn for your luxuries every time you hit end turn.

The article does seem to fall into the trap though of reporting on what players are complaining about online rather than coming to their own opinions, so I'm not sure how useful it is for anyone who is looking for something more informed than just a summary of online complaints. At least when it talks about what has changed it appears to do so accurately, which makes it better than most video game articles I've read. That's a super low bar though.

I think that’s pretty much spot on.

I do think that, for all the great stuff that was in it, the June Patch did take a few steps backwards in a few areas, which is a bit frustrating. Although I also do wonder whether the June Patch was a first past at a few hard issues, and FXS may do another pass on production etc.

What the article doesn’t really discuss is how FXS are focused on improving things interatively. What I mean is, I think they deliberately roll stuff out at a particular pace - hold off making too many changes at once - so they can overall get better balance and mechanics. The downside is that stuff takes ages to get “right”. The upside is that when it is “right”, the mechanics really sing.

Yeah. I don’t really know. I’ve played a few games recently and the game overall does suddenly feel quite tight. Eg I love how the way units and Walls interact has got so much better. You can still rush horses and take cities, but not once they have Walls, so now you get this really tight window to conquer with horses.

But at the same time, there’s still a few barnacles that don’t work for me, and I’m inclined to just shelve the game again until yet another patch or expansion maybe fixes a few more things that matter to me.
 
Last edited:
What the article doesn’t really discuss is how FXS are focused on improving things interatively. What I mean is, I think they deliberately roll stuff out at a particular pace - hold off making too many changes at once - so they can overall get better balance and mechanics. The downside is that stuff takes ages to get “right”. The upside is that when it is “right”, the mechanics really sing.
I think that's actually a problem. Because they're doing essentially 2 patches a year, the "slow tweak" process seems painfully bad because dialing in on "exactly right" doesn't leave room for much in the way of feedback. It's not like there will be a patch-feedback-patch loop cycle. It's patch.... deadzone... deadzone... crickets... crickets...

Oh hey look a new patch that has nothing to do with the previous patch. I know I feel like I'm only here to complain (and I literally haven't started a game of Civ since March) but none of the issues that made me put the game on the shelf were addressed in this patch, Ed's "oh hey yeah we're aware that coastal cities are a problem" tweet came out AFTER the patch, and the next patch is being referred to as the "Winter" patch, which means, based on previous Firaxis nomenclature, likely January or February. So it is not at all unlikely that I'm done with Civ6 completely, which is pretty sad because this game started out with such a great foundation.

It just ended badly.
 
It is an article written by an article writer. It is bland and I feel concentrates on some things like borders that while annoying are not overall big ones, especially in the grievance system just like @Eagle Pursuit states. It is like it is pandering to the posts.

I feel GS is where the team had to stop doing the building and only now can properly start on the tweaking. But it feels like they have not reduced the testing to match. Long development cycles as @Duuk is saying have just made me lose interest, not because the the game is dull but some broken bits are still broken.

The article does however bring home the point that these small issues like border control that annoy the hell out pf people could have the mechanic clarified which would help a lot. I guess they take the thin end of the wedge argument.

So it is not at all unlikely that I'm done with Civ6 completely, which is pretty sad because this game started out with such a great foundation.
My birthday is in 3 days, my spouse has offered some nice bribes if I uninstall and tbh, I just am not gonna wait until winter.
 
A bright spot is that @Sostratus epic IZ thread got a reference. More please.
We're famous! We made it to the big time, boys. The fake internet points will start piling up in no time. Honestly I just hope that more civ players get exposure to the strategies us forum goers have devised to make the most of new IZs. A lot of it is not obvious and if you don't realize it, you're missing out on so much. Especially if you're a builder.

When I see something like this
I just am not gonna wait until winter.
It just makes me wish that whatever the organization flow at FXS is that sets these long patch cycles, would loosen a bit so they could push out numbers tweaks much more rapidly. I get that they put thought behind what they do, but some stuff, like the Anticav bonus vs mounted ability description bug, [The new ability feature shows it as +14 but it's still +10 in combat] could be fixed overnight. I know that if you start accumulating a bunch of these little tweaks it can become a QA nightmare but I think that the bigger issue is, other studios have become a lot more responsive and this type of dev cycle is really gonna stick out by civ7. I do like the videos they make a lot! So much better when they give some insight into why certain changes are made!
 
I don't think agreeing with the writer's arguments necessarily makes you dislike the patch or vice versa.

I agree with many points the writer made, especially the inflated science and pointless demand spam, but I don't think they are substantial enough to cause me to dislike the patch personally.

It's an improvement over the previous iteration and there's more that can and should be done. They already brought up updating some civ uniques and addressing coastal cities. I'm sure there will be more to come, if not an outright new expansion in the Fall.
 
I don't think agreeing with the writer's arguments necessarily makes you dislike the patch or vice versa.

I agree with many points the writer made, especially the inflated science and pointless demand spam, but I don't think they are substantial enough to cause me to dislike the patch personally.

It's an improvement over the previous iteration and there's more that can and should be done. They already brought up updating some civ uniques and addressing coastal cities. I'm sure there will be more to come, if not an outright new expansion in the Fall.
It's already July. If there was going to be a new expansion in the Fall we'd already know about it. Considering they tease _patches_ for 2-3 weeks and we can see depot updates on those two months in advance they would have to be hiding this in some magical, completely offline, inaccessable-to-steam way.

So yeah. No.

What I find far, far more likely is that we'll see depot updates starting after the holiday (slowly), there will be a patch around Halloween.

Civ6 will have a third expansion announcement in the spring (Civ 6: New Horizons, which expands colonial era play and finally addresses coastal play and adds global warming to the stone age).
 
It's already July. If there was going to be a new expansion in the Fall we'd already know about it. Considering they tease _patches_ for 2-3 weeks and we can see depot updates on those two months in advance they would have to be hiding this in some magical, completely offline, inaccessable-to-steam way.

So yeah. No.

What I find far, far more likely is that we'll see depot updates starting after the holiday (slowly), there will be a patch around Halloween.

Civ6 will have a third expansion announcement in the spring (Civ 6: New Horizons, which expands colonial era play and finally addresses coastal play and adds global warming to the stone age).

We didn't see the GS depots and DLC until September last year.
 
What evidence do we have that there will be no more patches until winter?? :confused:

They've already started regular QA branch updates, so August is a very reasonable guess the next patch month. September is also possible. Australian winter, yes, but we won't have to wait until north American winter or I'll eat my (non-existent) hat.

If there is a third expansion, the next patch may be the last major one for GS, but there would be more patches for the next expansion. If there isn't a third expansion, I would expect at least two more substantial patches for GS before the end of 2019.
 
I mean I do think we'll get a third expansion but it can simply be a Civ pack DLC at the very least.

If not then as others mentioned, definitely more support. I honestly don't see them stopping dev work on Civ6 just yet.
 
Well, I’m not going to argue it’s either a well written or well researched article - it isn’t. “Pandering” is the right word - it’s just reporting a bunch of things said in threads.

But it does highlight three things to me.

First, a few things went backwards in the last patch. The article unfairly ignores a lot of good stuff in the Patch [0], and how responsive FXS has been to the community [1], but it’s right that production got less interesting (I really hope that gets tweaked next patch). Personally, I’m still really unimpressed with the changes to Harbour and Encampment Specialists. It’s not a big thing, but again it’s just making mechanics more bland.

Second, yeah, the pace of balancing is tedious. If someone asked me “would you rather FXS take longer to patch but you get better changes, or have FXS rush and mechanics are less balanced?”, then yeah I’d take longer and better. And that’s still my answer. But man, it is taking a long time. I think it’s worth the wait, but I feel like I’m still waiting. Always waiting. [2]

Third, the World Congress is a bit flawed, even after the most recent rework. I don’t actually think it’s a big deal in the scheme of things. The WC mostly sort of pulls its weight as a Mechanic, more or less. And it’s better than the Civ V version overall. But it feels very similar to Religion - a cool Mechanic but it doesn’t quite work in practice, doesn’t quite matter enough. I suspect World Congress has the same problem as Religion too - it’s slightly hamstrung by also having a related Victory Condition. As a result, FXS can’t just let the Mechanics breath / expand because they have to be balanced with other Victory conditions. I don’t think the WC is make or break mechanically in terms of enjoying the game, and it’s the kind of thing that might get a lot better in a Third XP. But it’s a bit lacking at the moment.

Hmm. Well. Anyway. It looks like we’ll get another decent patch before year end. I still think we’ll get another Expansion too, or at a minimum some decent DLC. And that means they’ll be even more patching. FXS are generally making good decisions in these patches and post GS are now slowly addressing issues and tweaking balance, and increasingly I’m seeing more and better balanced mods / tweaks on the Steam Workshop as well. So, I’m confident the game will get better. And I’m confident when it does it’ll be awesome. It’ll just take some time. And at the end of the day, it really is just a video game, so it’s not a big deal either way.

In the meantime, I just bought EU IV in the Steam sales.

[0] I do think it’s worth reflecting on just how much work has gone into the game over the past six months. GS was itself massive, and while it had a lot of new toys, it also had a lot of content that was directed at improve some core game mechanics - eg resources which significantly improved unit balance and has made war harder. There have also been multiple patches, and each one has massively improved the game, even if in a few places some things that don’t work still haven’t yet been addressed. And there has been a huge shift in QOL stuff, like pins, lenses, map tacks, names, better maps etc. Post RnF it felt like there was a very long list of stuff that needed more work and polish, and maybe here are still a few things on that list, but FXS have really been crossing stuff off that list at a ferocious rate lately.

[1] Big shift. It’s not just the cheery videos, which are very welcome. It’s also the replying to tweets, posting on Twitch channels, posting on forums to clarify things, and answering questions during live-streams (even if a bit obliquely). I think we’re getting about the right level of communication - not all the time or overtly pandering etc., just the occasional FYI and heads up about what’s going on.

[2] That’s kinda why I’m someone that would like to see FXS continue supporting the game long term. People have invested over three years in waiting for the game to feel “complete” and balanced - it would be a shame when we finally get there for FXS to then move onto other projects.
 
Last edited:
I think the patch is OK. My biggest complaint about it is that it just doesn't feel nearly as big or hefty as I feel we were led to believe it would be. Like we got the preview video that put out a lot of what was coming, and that got us all excited, but there was talk that there was much more they hadn't shown yet and that the patch notes were something like 12 pages long and... it seemed a little overwhelming when we finally got it, IMO.
 
The article is making the same mistake as many players. It tries to come up with "The best way to play".

Civ 6, after many updates and DLC, has reach a level where there ISNT the best way to play.
Its depends on Millions of factors.

The June Patch did tons of good for AI. They dont get fooled as easy, and are more friendly, pay more, to you if they like you etc.
I have played Civ 6 since lauch, and every civ before that.

Civ 6, is now, VERY good. Lots of stuff can be improved! Of course!
HOWEVER, Civ 6 is a complete, working, awesome game. Without any bugs that ruins the game.

If someone think my comment is full of *****, please say so! And give an example.
(I am one of those crazy people who looks at logs, checks features and AI acting, alot).
 
Top Bottom