Strength required to take down cities

[TheCrazyHorse]

1. I just started playing the game and I am not able to figure out how to calculate the odds of how many units will be required to take down a city.
Is it the strength of the city <compared to> sum of (ranged) strength of the units I have?
2. Also, how many turns (based on what parameters?) it takes regain what amount of health (for both cities and units).

Can you guys please throw some light.

Thanks.

 

[gcrockwood]

You can figure out the cities HP by looking at your own cities and learning how they grow over time. How many units it will take is kinda luck based. You want to keep your ranged units safe so they safely pelt the city from a distance, while your melee wait for the city hp to drop enough to take it.

Don't use melee to attack cities... just no. They're for fighting units around the city, pillaging, and taking the city once it's hp is gone.

I'm pretty sure a taken city restores 10% of it's hp per turn.

 

[Goldstar]

Not taking into account other bonuses (such as fountain of youth, or Persia's Immortals etc), the amount a unit heals per turn is based based on where the unit is located while it's fortified.

A unit outside of friendly territory heals 10 HP per turn.
A unit inside of friendly territory, but not garrisoned in a friendly city heals 20 HP per turn.
A unit garrisoned inside a friendly city heals 25 HP per turn.

I'm not sure the exact amount that cities heal per turn, but 10% of their max HP per turn sounds about right.

Finally, it's hard to tell how many units are "required" to take a city. Generally you want to use mostly ranged units because they do not take any damage when they attack (unlike melee units). Bringing siege units can speed up the process, but require a turn of set up and have really low defense usually. I've found 5-6 composite bows and 1-2 spears are a pretty good offensive military force in the early game up to emperor, but there are other factors that change how "good" a military is that varies from game to game.

 

[Resipsa]

On Immortal

2-3 Archers or Chariots and one melee unit will cap a city <10 strength
5-6 Archers Chariots and 2 melee units will cap a city <20 strength
5-6 CB and 2 melee units will cap a city <30

After that you'll have range and double attack promotions, XBows and should be able to take higher strength cities

 

[nanomage]

I'd say 6 CB against a >25 strength city is very risky, and 5 is a sureway to get some of them dead. Another bad thing that can happen to an attacking force is a garrisoned ranged ship (dromon, or a galeass if you're unlucky)

 

[TheCrazyHorse]

If the numbers are good enough for Immortal, I think I should be fine till noble.
Thanks for the replies.

 

[Resipsa]

I'd say 6 CB against a >25 strength city is very risky, and 5 is a sureway to get some of them dead. Another bad thing that can happen to an attacking force is a garrisoned ranged ship (dromon, or a galeass if you're unlucky)

You can and should pillage and move out of range if the city can kill your unit. Heal the unit out of range and move back when they can attack without dying. The AI will often attack your melee units which should be receiving the cover promotion and that's very helpful. It may take several turns but those general guidelines on numbers have served me well.

EDIT: I'm not saying you don't know that it was mainly directed at OP

 

[Sincro]

If you don't mind super-micromanaging your units, you can always make sure that you have 1 or 2 already wounded 'bait' units that move in with your attack force. In my experience, the AI will prioritize a wounded unit in order to get a kill.

-S

 

[TheCrazyHorse]

@Sincro ... i'll make sure to keep some barbarians around to wound my scouts . I am sure my civilization will forgive me for that ... after all its for the greater good.

 

[Browd]

On Immortal

2-3 Archers or Chariots and one melee unit will cap a city <10 strength
5-6 Archers Chariots and 2 melee units will cap a city <20 strength
5-6 CB and 2 melee units will cap a city <30

After that you'll have range and double attack promotions, XBows and should be able to take higher strength cities

I'd say 6 CB against a >25 strength city is very risky, and 5 is a sureway to get some of them dead. Another bad thing that can happen to an attacking force is a garrisoned ranged ship (dromon, or a galeass if you're unlucky)

There are no absolutes (e.g., there's no rule that 5-6 ranged is the minimum and/or always enough). In addition to RNG issues, you need to pay close attention to the terrain surrounding the city. Do your CBs have clear shots from 2 tiles out, so they can all move into position and fire on the same turn? Do your units have easy avenues to withdraw to heal? Does your melee unit have to cross a river, hill, forest or jungle to get into position to attack the city on the next turn?

Also, does the target city have a CB garrisoned, or just a regular archer (or a melee unit)?

Has the target civ adopted Oligarchy (+50% ranged strength when garrisoned) and/or the pantheon belief Goddess of Protection (+30% ranged strength, even without a garrison)? If they have both, you can find your units being one-shotted to death by a 20+ strength city.

And I almost always regret not bringing 2 melee units (depending on terrain, one to distract the city's defenders and take fire, and the other to actually take the city if the first guy dies, or has to withdraw to avoid dying).

Finally, do everything you can to kill the defending army -- totally killed -- before getting into bombardment range of the city.

 

[Sincro]

To follow up on what Browd said about killing the AIs army, you should do everything possible to avoid letting an AI ranged unit retreat back into the city you want to attack. Obviously it's not always avoidable, but a city with a ranged unit stationed inside is a *lot* harder to take out than a city w/o one. If for no other reason that if you need more then one turn to take the city out, which is usually the case early on, you are almost guaranteed to lose units.

-S

 

[Matthew.]

Don't use melee to attack cities... just no.

Cavalry, yes. More freedom with regular melee, especially early game and against weaker satellite cities. Spears and pikes, usually; sword line is a bit rough to use effectively.

As game goes on it becomes increasingly more pointless. Bomber and artillery spam do all the work for ya.

 

[Resipsa]

Mongolian and Greek and probably Shoshone can effective use horsemen or their equivalent to attack cities because of the extra movement points

 

[slowcar]

Mongolian and Greek and probably Shoshone can effective use horsemen or their equivalent to attack cities because of the extra movement points

Horsemen get a -25% attack penalty. You use them to take the city, not to attack it per se.
Often it is also helpful to have them get out of the city in case it is retaken.

 

[Falconiano]

It all depends on the terrain really. If you can cycle units easily you need a ton less than you would in a tight spot.
I always make 2 cats ASAP, level them up quickly to range then it's downhill from there on.
Going archer-only for conquest is pretty risky, if you find the wrong civ on their right terrain it'll be tough to beat them without losses.

 

[IAmOzymandias]

I have good luck with ranged-only conquest. Bring a horseman along for fun, and then just rotate out ranged units when they're hurt. Constant damage from, say, 6 units can take down a city in 2 turns, rather than 4 turns for 4 ranged and 2 melee.

if it's a very strong city and scouts are still buildable, they're often times very solid cannon fodder and adept at breaking roads and trade routes for cheap. Flood the enemy territory and capture/kill their workers while breaking the trade routes from their capital and/or key strategic resources (What's that Germany, you have 10 panzers ready to go? Say bye-bye to your oil. . .) sets you up for a pretty easy war.

Run a fast unit like a scout or horseman in after the city is at 0 and nab it.

as others have stated, more important than your number of units is your tactics. Plan beforehand what you're going to do, at the very least in the city you're looking to take. Better (and more difficult) is a two-pronged attack on larger empires, one that forces a wedge in between the capital and the smaller (generally more useless) cities, and another that pushes up to the capital city. You can leave the useless cities, or if you're intent on total war, take them out easily after the fact, and they will be unable to support the capital as it comes under fire.

When facing the AI, I ironically find the best option is to find a highly defensible position by their borders, and then just camp there and kill their army as it comes in. Generally the AI will throw their entire defense force at you and once it's gone, you've got a cakewalk. Generally doesn't work with humans.