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Strongest and Weakest Policies

Discussion in 'Communitas Expansion Pack' started by Thalassicus, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. agc28

    agc28 Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2006
    Messages:
    220
    EricB,

    Opener: +3 faith and +1 culture in the capital

    This means..in order to get to the first pantheon, you would build a monument first. That does not sound right...?

    Just an idea
     
  2. EricB

    EricB Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    Michigan
    Maybe +3 faith is too high then. Would +2 faith and +1 culture be better?
     
  3. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

    Joined:
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    Washington, DC
    +1 faith, +1 culture, double speed building shrines?

    I think double speed shrines is a great way of making Piety encourage you to invest in shrines in the very early game.
     
  4. Tomice

    Tomice Passionate Smart-Ass

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,320
    Location:
    Austria, EU, no kangaroos ;)
    Or some instant faith?
     
  5. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Messages:
    7,361
    Location:
    Europe, more or less
    Nah, you should have to work for faith. I'm not opposed to double building speed for shrines, but then one should not put too many bonuses on shrines afterwards (i.e. 1 happiness on rel buildings (shrines and temples) <<< 2 happiness on temples). 1 free faith is okay, but for more you should have to work. Too much free faith also devalues pantheons that give faith a bit, no?

    I still like my idea of giving culture each time the faith counter crosses x faith (for the first time or everytime, whatever's balanced and doable :)).

    I'm not sure what to do about Holy Sites. Putting more faith on them seems counterintuitive (as they need faith to be produced) and increasing gold or science or a combat bonus (a la fort) devalues those other improvements. I could see some kind of "adds x gold to surrounding tiles" or "increases trade income in city by x". I'm not sure the improvement needs much changing tbh though...

    PS: Random thoguht #3: Can we give influence per turn for having a trade route towards a city state?
     
  6. EricB

    EricB Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
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    Location:
    Michigan
    Having a piety opener of +1 culture, +1 faith and double production of shrines sounds about right to me too. I could see scenarios where sometimes you'd take Piety as your first policies and other times you'd take Tradition, Honor, or Liberty.

    The goal I really have is to make it where there isn't any element of the game that is a must-have or something that you completely avoid.
     
  7. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Agreed. 1 faith per turn is probably better in that it doesn't give you a pantheon too quickly.

    I definitely like the idea of something that rewards you just purely for faith income. What I like is rewarding a religious playstyle in a way that isn't just from straight bonuses on buildings, and works no matter how you use the faith.
    Whether it is culture or gold I don't really mind. Having it come straight from the income rather than work at a threshold might be easier for the AI to understand and less gameable (human player could be above the threshold, buy something cheap, then accumulate back to the threshold and get the bonus, repeat).

    I think culture works, which then becomes tourism with hotels etc.

    Yes, there is already a policy that has this effect in the Freedom ideology tree. I've argued for a long time that this should be in Patronage (probably 1 influence per turn); it is much more interesting than giving extra gold.
     
  8. EricB

    EricB Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
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    I've been trying out that change to the Piety opener of giving +1 culture, +1 faith and double production for building shrines lately. It seems pretty balanced. In some games I select it as a first policy, but typically only games where I'm a very religious civ and I want a dominant religion. In games where religion is less of a priority, then I select the Liberty, Tradition, or Honor openers first.

    Right now I'm playing with the 4 openers like this:
    Honor: Culture from barbarian kills, +25% combat strength vs. barbarians
    Piety: +1 faith, +1 culture (in capital), Double Production for shrines
    Liberty: +1 production, +1 culture per city
    Tradition: +3 culture in the capital

    Tradition is the way to go if you aren't planning on expanding that fast. Maybe you are a tall civ. Maybe there just aren't any good places to expand to close by. Maybe you have very close, but pretty peaceful neighbors.

    Liberty is the way to go for rapid expansion.

    Honor is the way to go if you plan on going to war soon. I also go with Honor if there's lot of bad land around me where barbarians will be spawning. I believe that I increased the culture from barbarian kills slightly too and got rid of the revealing barb camps messages. That's more of a gameplay style preference than a balance change. I found the messages showing barb camps to be annoying and a bit gamey. I like it when finding a camp is a surprise. Just a preference.

    I now go with the Piety opener if I want to get a pantheon up and going. Typically, it's only the first policy I pick if I'm a civilization who needs a dominant religion, such as Spain. Other policies give better non-faith benefits.
     

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