Struggling to (even) get to Normal Age by Classical Era

[CivLuvah]

On my first game with R&F as Rome I tried to aim for a Classical Golden Age; however I wasn't able to get any opportunities to increase my era score. Worse I wasn't able to increase my score so I could get even a Normal Age. I eventually earned a Heroic Age by the Medieval Era. I've noticed this happened to me in several games; ironically all of them involving civs that were more prominent during the Classical era in real life.

Does anyone have any tips and strategies on how to achieve enough era points to gain a Golden Age by the Classical Era? Should I increase production (that's been a problem of mine during the early game - gaining enough production to create a decent-sized ancient army)? Should I have lots of scouts to discover natural wonders? Should I declare war early?

 

[whacker]

There are some maps where it can be very hard to gain a classical golden age. Nevertheless there are plenty of ways to gain early points, some of those are:

-start with a scout to find goody huts(+1 each) and natural wonders (+3 if you are the first to discover it)
-if you find a natural wonder in close vicinity, settle a city there for +3
-clear barb camps with your starting warrior(+2, +3 if they are close to one of your cities). With discipline card and some luck your scout may get one as well, especially close to city states.
-try to chop the pyramids if you have the tile for it(+4). Theoretically any wonder will do, but pyramids are the only one i would recommend in almost any situation.
-try to reach political philosophy befor the world era changes, yout get +3 for government and new era.
- the first of horses, galleys and swordmen give +2 each
-being the first suzerain to a CS gives +2 for each city state. If you recruit amani 1. or 2. you should be able to get 1-3 city states for a total of +2-6 era score. On high difficulties more than one, sometimes two, are hard because of the faster era change and the travel time of amani.
-ur first unique units/buildings give +4 each. This means that civs with very early uu/ub have an easier time getting to a classical golden age.
-trading posts give +1 each. This can only be used reliably by mongols and cree in classical era though.
-settling on desert or tundra gives +1 each.
-forward settling an AI gives +1, but i would deter from doing so if you are not prepared for war.
-there are some boni like +1 for each GP, +3 for religion, +2 first pantheon that can only be achieved under certain circumstances and with certain civs like russia/china.

I bet i have forgotten some, but with these boni you can get a classical golden age for at least 50% of the time on deity, at least if you focus on it.

I would recommend playing a game as the cree, as they have to best reliable shot on classical golden ages in my oppinion. +8 for uu/ub +1 for trade post, you can always get those. On top of that your scout is basically a warrior, so you have double camp clearing power.

 

[Chibisuke]

Good points above. Getting golden age at the beginning of the game is a big challenge, especially on deity. It's something I have discussed in other threads. Building wonders helps hugely, and for that China is great.

 

[callmewoof]

I'm having the opposite problem. I keep getting to normal age every time while trying not to on deity. I want a dark age on purpose so I can slingshot into a heroic. It only takes 12 points to hit normal. Meeting a couple civs, two or three goodie huts, one or two barb camps, bam 12 points.

Each time I try to get a golden age at the station seem to fall 3-5 points shorty, so I've been trying to go dark while saving as many point boosters (like UU/UB/UI)

 

[Victoria]

so I can slingshot into a heroic

Slightly off topic but has been nagging me... is a heroic worth it?
The word Heroic sings wonderful bonuses but are they combined?

Assuming you do not have a religion or want a RV Exodus is pointless leaving you no choice but taking Monumentality, Free Inquiry and Pen, brush and voice.

The era points you will gain from the heroic are likely to lead to a golden which is one thing.
10% to science and culture Eurekas is something also

Monumentality can be awesome either with gold or faith, mainly with faith and goddess of the harvest but getting that on Deity is pure luck and unlikely to lead to a classic dark age. This is my first go-to
Pen, Brush and Voice is another word for the Meritocracy card pure and simple. Not to be ignored. and a good solid culture boost but not awesome.
Free Inquiry is about having a lot of CH early or a couple of harbour triangles. With these it can be quite strong but limits your science/culture growth initially to get.

Whats the down side to compare against? Some nasty loyalty pressure at a level where the AI starts with 3 cities and 5 warriors. A deity dark can be quite dangerous and the AI does like to get Amani to take loyalty off you. But it can be managed.

I think the key thing here is you really need to decide early to go dark before you really know how the game is going to turn out. If you want to go dark you really have to blind yourself to exploration. If you want to push a classic golden this is where the real comparison goes. From say turn 50-100 you will be in a golden or a dark if you can... what does the golden give you? Well the ability to buy settlers and workers fast and your workers to be sped up so you get improvements faster. this classic golden age at the right time is very very strong if you take monumentality. If you are a seasoned player you know getting settlers out there and moar cities is what its all about and then to get them developed as fast as possible.

In essence you are sacrificing a very strong (probably strongest) golden age era for a dark where when you come out the other end you are likely to get good bonuses but nothing blinding apart form monumentality which you can get with a double golden. I am finding the classic golden so strong that a medieval golden is hard to avoid and the two together speed up your game a lot

Its only when you feel this you realise the heroic is probably not worth it unless you are going for a long game in which case it may be better.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Explain how to get that Classical Golden Age on Deity though? It seems on this forum it is easier to get compared to actually getting in my actual games. Perhaps I do not have enough personal data yet. DanQuayle was saying to me in another thread about how to go about it and that on Pangaea that you should be able to meet all the Civs before anyone else. I am finding that not so easy to get done before the Classical Age. I have been messing with it going with scout and double scout first.You need 24 era points and that isn't so easy. I don't find that I spawn that close to a Natural Wonder very often to settle it at all. He was saying to forward settle the AI but you better be ready for War when you do that. Next... Barb Camps... not so easy to clear them when City States or the AI is in the way doing the same. I also find it funny when I am starting to make some progress I find a Barb Camp spawn next to me and I head over to it to kill it and all of a sudden here comes the Horse Rush.

I think it is more Civ and Map dependent. I certainly do not find getting a Golden Age in the Classical Era so easy or matter of fact. Even the above mentions that you should get it 50% of the time but that seems pretty tough as well.

I am sure I am just doing it wrong... I need to watch some more streams and youtube LPs and see if they do it so easy as well. I wonder if the players who say they get it so often are re-rolling and know the map before hand or re-roll turns. I know DanQuayle is a great player though and just knows how to do it like others and Victoria. It just seems to elude me but like I say I never focused on it before so I don't have enough data. I don't mind a Dark Age so much if I have some cities up. I like to use the +2F/+2P card and a few other Dark Age Cards are pretty good as well.

 

[eleven11]

Here @DanQuayle shared this with us in another thread. Definitely helpful

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...T73C-gUWV5bq_McQjMGeoWN38/edit#gid=1645377719

 

[Fluphen Azine]

You think I didn't already read that? One of my first comments was about DanQuayle and his advice that I was obviously talking about the Religion Thread I was talking about the same problems. I am just saying it isn't so simple or easy... my last two games... one as Washington and one as Indonesia... My Washington game was fine but not even close to a Golden Age and the Indo game was about 20 Era Points and building ToA gave up too many problems when Genghis invaded. In my Washington Game I had 3 scouts uncovering most of the map and still was unable to locate the last Civ in time. Shooting for that 24 era score isn't as easy as they let on... Dan or anyone else. That list shows you what you need but it is another story getting all of that to fall into place.

You have to have certain land and neighbors to make this work. If you decide to go and scout up you are going to have some problems getting up an Army to clear Camps and you have a good chance to fall into a Barb Rush going with scout or double scout. If you spawn in some location that is forest poor, you can't chop your way out. If you chop early you are giving up better chops later on. You guys can post all the lists you want about what you need. I think we all know what gives era points and how many you need but the problem is getting 24 era points in time and being able to build things like Army, Settlers, Builders, Districts and trying to get your Government Buildings up and they want you to try to squeeze in a Wonder. Go and find a Natural Wonder and Settle it... that doesn't happen 50% of my games. Perhaps I find a Natural Wonder or Two but being able to Settle it is another story.

As I have said before I have to be doing things wrong and not only wrong but almost every game wrong because I can't get these Golden Ages in the Classical Era so easily and it feels like less than 33% of the time but I need to run more games and I am not talking about games with the Civs that give you all the easy points. It is clear that if you play with certain Civs you are going to have a higher rate of Classical Golden Ages but for someone who just Rolls everything Standard/Pang Maps and Random and plays all starts without Re-Rolls this getting the Golden Age in the Classical era is going to be difficult. I read another thread that stated a Classical Era Golden Age isn't as powerful as one in the Medieval one. What I am saying is if you can't go double Golden Age you would be better off not worrying about the Classical Age as much as the Medieval Age meaning that if you fall into a Dark Age in the Medieval it is more of a problem than having the Dark Age in the Classical Era.

I am still pretty sure it is Civ and Map Dependent and you do not have much room for imperfect play. You have to almost play perfect to get that Classical Golden Age on a 50% average. I need to start saving my turn 0 games and let some of you showcase how to get it done.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I am watching some players on Youtube and Twitch who are strong players and I do not see a very high rate of Classical Golden Ages. The truth is they even fall into a Classical Dark Age more than you would think. It seems Jungle really slows you down.

Can we get Victoria to run a bunch of tests please? Up to the Classical Era... thanks!

 

[eleven11]

I was responding to OP. Probably should have quoted him

 

[eleven11]

I am watching some players on Youtube and Twitch who are strong players and I do not see a very high rate of Classical Golden Ages. The truth is they even fall into a Classical Dark Age more than you would think. It seems Jungle really slows you down.

Can we get Victoria to run a bunch of tests please? Up to the Classical Era... thanks!

Jungle slows you down but it also provides serious protection. So, there's that.

My experience has been bad when I'm forward settled and rushed... forced to do 30 turns of military units just to survive.

Classical era is when I'm hitting my stride. Exploring is full steam as I'm most likely on the sea and have also sent an idle horse exploring. Districts with good bonuses are getting started. Adjacency bonuses definitely help so planning a good Government plaza can get you some points from +3 adjacency districts. Get 3-4 different districts on the board for additional points. Settle a coastal city and get a boat. In fact, get 4-5 boats and use the 100% production overlfow card Take over a neighbor. Barb camps. I think those are the easiest and most common. The rest are sort of tailored to your situation.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I was responding to OP. Probably should have quoted him

I misread that lol.

I dunno I don't have a problem getting Golden Ages after the Classical Era but getting that first Era to be a Golden Age is troublesome for me to say the least. I actually find it easier to go Dark into a Heroic but from my understanding that isn't such a great plan. From what I have read it is better to be in a Normal Age and transition it into a Golden Age when compared but Golden/Golden is supposed to be the Top Dog so to speak.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I played 10 games, up to about turn 70, all with different Civ's that don't have a big boost with Era points through UU/UB and I was only able to get 3 Golden Ages in the Classical. I will have to play them a bit more to see if I can double up in the next era. I had this one game with Australia where the map was more of a Fractal compared to Pangaea but that is how they go sometimes. Anyways, I never thought I could get a Golden Age but since I had a Natural Wonder for my first Expo and the neighbors were far away I was able to get 28 out of 24 and able to meet all Civs First for the extra 5 points but things are slowing down a bit heading to the next Era. The Land is tough to squeeze in cities and I have 5 up at turn 6 up at turn 68 with one CS close enough to Roll and after that I could start invading Robert.

Still very difficult though for me at least. Many games are more about the AI forward settling me pretty hard and some Barb problems which hinder getting those era points. Perhaps I just need more practice with it.

 

[eleven11]

Barbs are actually a huge source of points so I'd change your tactics to stop them from being a problem. Always keep a force ready around your borders to take out a barb camp that spawns within 8-10 tiles (not sure how close it needs to be for era points). If you see one near it should be a priority for 30 gold and era points. Plus acting quickly means you shouldn't have raging barbs tearing down your improvements.

Island plates or narrow landmasses are tough to get era points.. I believe lack of decent adjacency bonuses are mostly to blame. Less barbarians near your empire too because you are more likely to have most of the land revealed.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Must be a trick to this keeping troops around to clear Barb Camps. First off if you set up a perimeter you will have vision which will spawn bust them. That is pretty basic. I've been Spawn Busting since Civ IV. So now what your saying is you need some troops near the Capital but to leave areas where the Barbs can Spawn which is Random and Situational. This can't work every time and I would be surprised at a 50% rate since you have neighbors and you have to expand and expanding the quicker the better which will decrease Barb Spawning as well.

In my Washington game I did something like what you are talking about. So this second Barb Camp spawns on the West side of my Capital where they only have 3 hexes that aren't open to vision. I have a Warrior and a Slinger on the East side of my Capital within a Hex. I see the Barb Camp Spawn and a Scout in the same turn. I head over there to clear and as soon as my troops get close you have a Horse Spawn so I know I am in for some trouble.

The ideas are clear and are not new or what you are suggesting isn't incorrect but it certainly doesn't happen at a high rate of my games. As stated before someone was saying that you should be able to get this Golden Age 50% of the time on a Pangaea Map but it seems to me the odds are lower than 2 to 1.

 

[eleven11]

You sort of do wanna spawn bust them.. at least from spawning 4 tiles off your border. Control where you want them to spawn and then meet the scout before he gets to your borders. In ancient and classical eras there will be at least 3 instances where they will do this. 50% of the time it works every time. But hey, that's 50% better than before?

 

[Fluphen Azine]

This is an interesting start that I rolled with France just now. I moved the Warrior and found that Yosemite is next door.The save has me already moving the Warrior but you can decide where to settle. I wasn't sure what the best place to settle would be. I settled on the Farm but I think that was a mistake, I sorta forgot that it doesn't do anything but wipe the Farm away when you settle on it. I managed to steal a Settler and hard build a settler as well settling the NW for the extra era score. I am on turn 22 with an era score of 14 so I could still get the Golden Age but I fear I am going to run into some problems soon. I am a little too tired to continue on the game so I thought I would post the file if anyone wanted to mess with it. I don't use any Mods so the Save File is just the basic RF game as it currently is. I can go into the game later and take a picture of the start after a nap.

My B.O. was Scout, Settler because I wanted to settle the NW asap but not focusing on Army could backfire on me as usual... and I have to double check what I built next... either builder or slinger... I am pretty tired.

I cleared a Barb Camp that was nearby and found one CS so far and two Neighbors.

Perhaps I should of kept on with the War to try to steal some more goodies but got scared and made peace.

I decided to make a thread about the start as well if anyone rather post on that thread to showcase their game. This thread is about getting Classical Era Golden Ages consistently and I am very interested in that topic.

 

[Casualty of war]

If you start your build order with Scout you have an extremely high chance of getting a Classical Golden Age. However you will get murdered by any close neighbors or Barb spawns. Slinger is the safer bet to actually get to play a game but if your start position has some helpful defensive terrain and enough Hammers to get a 5-6 turn Scout you can get your Classical Golden.

 

[MarigoldRan]

And thus you play Nubia where your slingers are cheaper than scouts.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

And thus you play Nubia where your slingers are cheaper than scouts.

LOL... anyways it doesn't matter who I play or what I do exactly I have a hard time at being consistent getting a Classical Golden Age. An interesting example is the GOTM Deity Challenge 41 where Dan Quayle finished the game in 111 turns and I would say his average is around turn 115-120 in Deity on Continents Maps. It is impressive! The constant trick I see him using is to forward settle the AI for era points and it seems he lets the AI attack him killing the AI's army and after that he counterattacks clearing the map very fast. He also rushes Cartography by turn 90. I don't think I ever seen him miss a Golden Age and it isn't only him... many other players do the same thing. So the obvious thing for me is bad tech order and bad build order and bad choices in general. These guys just play perfect and know exactly how to exploit everything and anything. They don't care if they are playing Nubia or England... they get the same fast finish.

You are just stuck with this Nubia mindset but these guys are playing at another level and it doesn't matter what Civ they use because the AI is just that bad at War. They seem to jump on them very early instead of building infrastructure. They also seem to get the maximum out of chops and since this game is a chop simulator that is the real problem I am having... not understanding how to abuse chopping.