SU-27 crash into spectators at an airshow in Ukraine

[G-Man]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/07/27/ukraine.airshow/index.html

Estimated 20-40 killed, over 60 injured. A spectacular disaster.



Edit/update:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2155479.stm

They say:
"A fighter plane has crashed into a crowd of spectators killing at least 60 people at an air show in the western Ukraine city of Lviv."

 

[Hitro]

New reports speak of even more people killed. Really terrible thing.
And it keeps happening at such shows.

 

[AVN]

Why do these shows still exist ?
It's not the first time it's going wrong.

I think people never will learn.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by AVN
Why do these shows still exist ?
It's not the first time it's going wrong.

I think people never will learn.

People can't give up anything they like because it's dangerous. I just think they should have minimum requirments about the plane's meinteince. We still don't know what caused it, although I've heard the two pilots were saved so it'll be easier to find out.

 

[Hitro]

Okay, but the danger in these shows is pretty high. There have been several accidents over the years, which gets even more significant through the relatively low number of such events.

In Germany air acrobatics are forbidden at such shows since the Ramstein catastrophe, of which I am very much reminded when I see the pictures of today's crash on TV.

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by Hitro
Okay, but the danger in these shows is pretty high. There have been several accidents over the years, which gets even more significant through the relatively low number of such events.

In Germany air acrobatics are forbidden at such shows since the Ramstein catastrophe, of which I am very much reminded when I see the pictures of today's crash on TV.

In Israel they do them but not very often. When they do major airshows they always do them above the sea, as it's safer and also it allows more people to watch them. Smaller ones are done in graduation ceremonies of new IAF pilots but they're not particularly dangerous and are done in very reliable planes.

 

[Lucky]

German law does NOT forbid such air acrobatics.

But the rules state a minimum flight altitude, a minimum distance to spectators and that spectators are NOT allowed directly under the flight path of any plane, as it was in this case. With these rules the plane would not have crashed in the first place and even if, there would have been no crowd to crash into.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by Lucky
German law does NOT forbid such air acrobatics.

But the rules state a minimum flight altitude, a minimum distance to spectators and that spectators are NOT allowed directly under the flight path of any plane, as it was in this case. With these rules the plane would not have crashed in the first place and even if, there would have been no crowd to crash into.

You're right. What I meant is that it is forbidden at shows like the one in the Ukraine today. Shows were people are everywhere, looking at the planes etc. while other planes are performing stunts above them.

As an update: It seems that the death toll of today's crash is even higher than that in Ramstein back in 1988.

 

[Vinc]

73 people killed, hundreds injured.

 

[Richard III]

It seems there is a disaster about twice a year. Time to ban them forever, everywhere. The only reason they happen at all is PR for defence contractors and military budgets. And notice how it's never the WWII planes - the "heritage element" - that are the big killers?

We have to subsidize the damn shows here in Canada and they're wildly popular here, so god knows what it's like elsewhere.

Ban them, and save lives. God, the accident-to-show ratio must be 1:5 or something.

R.III

 

[Chris85]

there's 78 people dead now, with hundreds injured.

 

[magic-monkey]

The footage from that is truly terrifying.
Were the Ukrainian pilots operating within the European safety guidelines that were instituted after a previous tragic accident (can't remember which one exactly, i think it possibly involved the italian or german air force)?

 

[dannyevilcat]

And for me, almost as sad as the deaths is the destruction of one of my favorite fighters

And to R.III, no! don't ban them! I'm waiting eagerly to see the Abbotsford airshow this year!

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by magic-monkey
The footage from that is truly terrifying.

Indeed. I can't imagine what those people must have thought when they saw the airplane skipping like a stone across the ground.

 

[CurtSibling]

Originally posted by Richard III
It seems there is a disaster about twice a year. Time to ban them forever, everywhere. The only reason they happen at all is PR for defence contractors and military budgets. And notice how it's never the WWII planes - the "heritage element" - that are the big killers?

We have to subsidize the damn shows here in Canada and they're wildly popular here, so god knows what it's like elsewhere.

Ban them, and save lives. God, the accident-to-show ratio must be 1:5 or something.

R.III

Over-reaction-ville!

The thing that needs to be instituted is far more strict aircraft checks and maintainance.

 

[Chris85]

Originally posted by CurtSibling

Over-reaction-ville!

The thing that needs to be instituted is far more strict aircraft checks and maintainance.

You're right he is overreacting.

There hasn't been any crashes at the Offutt Air Show for all of the years I've been around and I credit that to the strict safety regulations instituted on the aircraft and the spectators.

 

[.:KNAS:.]

A misstake the pilots made in my mind, is that the ejected to soon, their supposed to steer away from the crowd before jumping out. Rather two dead pilots than 70 dead civilians.

 

[stormerne]

"The sacked head of Ukraine's air force has been arrested along with three other top military officials after Saturday's crash at an air show in Lviv which killed 83 people."
Latest BBC coverage here

 

[IceBlaZe]

Originally posted by .:KNAS:.
A misstake the pilots made in my mind, is that the ejected to soon, their supposed to steer away from the crowd before jumping out. Rather two dead pilots than 70 dead civilians.

Would you? Would I?

 

[marshal zhukov]

Brazil is going to buy 40 SU-35 at a price of 700 million $
SU-37 comes with thrust vectoring which is very important for maneuvarability, SU-37 I think is the best priced figther jet in the world.
SUkoi 27 is also pretty good but a bit old