Suggested Change in finishing policy trees
- Thread starter BiteInTheMark
- Start date
You are right in that the Great Musician gets the most use with CV play. So it makes sense to put it with the most CV driven tree....artistry.
The point that was brought up earlier is that Artistry feels like the automatic choice for CV....partly because of the extra musicians. Its a tough call, I agree that if musicians were in fealty they would see little use...but I understand the desire to spread the CV love among other trees more.
tu_79
Deity
That would be the main reason, actually.
I strongly disagree. By industrial era, progress is overall an excellent tree; with era scaling its culture output is great, far better than authority.
Why does CV need to be spread among other trees? Diplomacy is entirely loaded on Statecraft, Domination has two trees, and Science has one. Each also have access to their respective great people.
As far as the GWAM, they are already in the trees that make the most sense for real life accuracy, and changing them now would be a huge balance concern.
As far as the GWAM, they are already in the trees that make the most sense for real life accuracy, and changing them now would be a huge balance concern.
Oh to be a non coder...
BiteInTheMark
Deity
An easier solution to the mentioned one in the opening, would be unlocking all GP of one era, after
- finishing a policy tree in that era or
- finishing 6/12/18 policies
All GP of that era have doubled price, but the "unlocked" GP has its normal price.
Additionally, I see no special reason why unlocked GP have to wait till industrial era, before you can buy them. If you are completely isolated or don't see any reason to spread your religion (Celts, India, Spain), you have to waste your faith to prophets. No matter if you want them or not.
The discount for each "normal unlocked" GP should be also possible, cause such thing is already realized with the UA of India.
- finishing a policy tree in that era or
- finishing 6/12/18 policies
All GP of that era have doubled price, but the "unlocked" GP has its normal price.
Additionally, I see no special reason why unlocked GP have to wait till industrial era, before you can buy them. If you are completely isolated or don't see any reason to spread your religion (Celts, India, Spain), you have to waste your faith to prophets. No matter if you want them or not.
This would be true, if you were able to buy them immidiatly after finishing the tree, but in industrial age, progress is already competible with tradition in culture. Your argument would support my suggestion.
Finishing a tree unlocks a GP, this is already in the code, you only have to copy "unlock Great Writer, Great Engineer and Great General" in each of the ancient policy trees. The purchase cost of a GP can easily modified by changing 1 value. And the age, when GP are unlocked in general, can be changed from industrial age to ancient era. (this is already realized in the Byzantium UA)
The discount for each "normal unlocked" GP should be also possible, cause such thing is already realized with the UA of India.
Last edited:
tu_79
Deity
I have a water heater running gas. It takes too long to deliver hot water to my bathroom, since the distance is too long. I could relocate it inside the bathroom and enjoy almost immediate hot water. It's easy. I have the device, and I can move it from one wall to the other... except it is not easy at all.
First you need to put new gas pipes running through the house, exposed, connect the water heater to the water installation inside the bathroom, which means breaking the wall, the wall tiles, make the connection and repair the wall. Then you need to pass the exhaust to somewhere outside the bathroom, but sadly, there's no direct connection to the exterior, so the exhaust should have to pass through my bedroom which is a big no no for my wife. And how much does it cost for the convenience?
I've sometimes digged into the code, not this part, and even when something looks easy, there's a lot of moving parts, not all the relevant code is in the same section and the variables are not always what you think they are. Unless you want to do the work, you should trust them when they say it needs new code.
BiteInTheMark
Deity
What a shame, I thought it might be a good idea and relative easy to integrate cause there are similar mechanics in the game.
It would have given the human a bit more freedom to choose and AI less downside due to bad policy decision. (I've seen today a progress Shaka with only 1 city after 65 turns)
But if the majority didn't like it, the people have spoken.
It would have given the human a bit more freedom to choose and AI less downside due to bad policy decision. (I've seen today a progress Shaka with only 1 city after 65 turns)
But if the majority didn't like it, the people have spoken.
telelavoro
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2018
- Messages
- 31
This sounds cool but it would also be a pain, completely separately from the coding effort, to rebalance the costs so as to not put undue weight on GPs when they unlock (frankly, i would rather de-emphasise them than emphasise them at this point)
but it sounds like the perfect concept for a modmod
but it sounds like the perfect concept for a modmod
What a shame, I thought it might be a good idea and relative easy to integrate cause there are similar mechanics in the game.
It would have given the human a bit more freedom to choose and AI less downside due to bad policy decision. (I've seen today a progress Shaka with only 1 city after 65 turns)
But if the majority didn't like it, the people have spoken.
It’s not just a code issue - people are happy with the way things are.
G
BiteInTheMark
Deity
It looks like some people are not absolute happy about some of the GWAM placement. My suggestion would have bypassed this problem. But its ok. I thought I would got more positive response and a majority could have convinced you for a change.
But its ok.
Yeah I would vote to switch just based on this. Making the medieval trees more neutral for CV is always good.
Even without the CV consideration, GMusicians seems better for Fealty anyway. With the GArtist change, it's hard to get much mileage out of them as Fealty because you won't have many great works. GMusicians can give a fast happiness boost which helps Fealty's wide play
Legen
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2015
- Messages
- 1,499
In an older patch, I had the suggestion to not just move Artists to Artistry, but also to move Musicians to Industry (for Broadway) and Merchants to Fealty (for Burghers). Some people supported it at the time, but that may be different now.
I'd also like to be able to purchase certain great people without having to choose either a specific policy branch or To the Glory of God. This is particularly true for civs with a unique revolving around a great person (Japan, Sweden, certain uniques in the 4UC mod), and I would like to have more alternatives.
Do finishers have to unlock only one great person? If they could unlock a combination of great people instead, we'd make some civs less dependent on specific trees and have more flexibility to balance the social policies.
I'd also like to be able to purchase certain great people without having to choose either a specific policy branch or To the Glory of God. This is particularly true for civs with a unique revolving around a great person (Japan, Sweden, certain uniques in the 4UC mod), and I would like to have more alternatives.
Do finishers have to unlock only one great person? If they could unlock a combination of great people instead, we'd make some civs less dependent on specific trees and have more flexibility to balance the social policies.
This idea ain't bad at all.
I don't think its right to make more than one great person available in a tree though. On the note of civ uniques, its exactly Sweden and Japan that feel pressured to take a certain tree, right? Sweden wants authority either way, right? Japan probably does too, and Japan has a decent chance at religion and Glory of God. Furthermore, Japan basically tries to win the game in medieval era when Samurai can flex. I wouldn't be basing Japan's (or many other civ's) ancient era decisions around what great person unlocks in industrial.
pineappledan
Deity
Even ignoring the faith buy for Admirals, Japan has heavy Imperialism synergy with the +33% rate on both Admirals and Generals in that tree. Even if Japan went ttGoG, they would probably go Imperialism anyways, which is maybe why ttGoG is kinda wasted on Japan. They're better off with crusader spirit or something.
BiteInTheMark
Deity
That 33% arguement is kinda nonsense. If you go straight towards that policy, its the 16th you can unlock, definitly not before mid industrial age.
If you didnt go for TtGoG, you have to go authority too, and with it, you have to conquer in the early game. In this case, you already have gained generals and admirals and rised the cost for the next admiral/general to a high value. (If you would have gained already 3 generals, you already have gained 200+400+600=1200 xp in the game. Half the game is already over, lets say you get additional 1200xp, you would gain the next general normally after 800, but not the next one after 800+1000. Even with the policy, you would have only 1600 of the 1800 needed xp. In this case, the policy is useless, maybe increase the amount of generals/admirals only by one, who knows. Thats no heavy synergy to me)
And beeing peaceful in the early game and starting conquest from industrial age on with imperialismn would be a waste of your samurai, and the effect of the gained GW thanks to your UA should be already small. Also, what will you do in that stage of the game? Its a bit late for a global domination, and going for CV needs peace with your neighbors and not slaughtering them.
So you're saying I will pick imperialism regardless of what Great Person it unlocks? That's my point.
