[Suggestion/Vote] Tune down gold stealing

[saamohod]

Whenever you happen to earn or accumulate large enough sums of money it's only a matter of 1-2-3 turns before you get stripped of ~40% of treasury.

My religious tenet allows me to earn substantial sums of gold when I conquer a city. Every second or third turn I get messages like this



Two turns before I lost 4k+ gold. Counterspies don't seem to help much.

The amount of stolen gold should be tuned down. It cannot be just a percentage of your current treasury (which seems to be the way it is now). There is no way to keep large treasury for any short period of time before the discovery of Police Stations because money gets stolen literally in matter of several turns.

Please note this is not me being unlucky in my current game. It's a consistent pattern in any game I've been playing.

 

[General_Drax]

True but you can do the same vs AIs.

In my current game and i'm going for DV and chose Statecraft/Rationalism/Order: my spies are virtually undetectable, enemy spies are crippled and I can steal gold every other turn.

The only possible defense is just buy and spend: Ais do this as well.

 

[civplayer33]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion because the Gold stealing can indeed be annoying but I agree with General Drax here: you can do the same to the AI and banking a lot of Gold is another one of those things where the human will be able to make use of it much better than the AI because of far superior long term planning and anticipation / analysis ability...thus I think it's working fine right now when considering balance between human and AI players.

 

[Bromar1]

Yeah, I think it would be better to spread out the stolen yields to other resources. Maybe it could be flat gold, high percentage of your GAP, and unhappiness in the city?

 

[Zuizgond]

Agree that gold stealing should be tuned down. Or maybe increase counterspying effectiveness because even rank 3 spies seem pretty useless at catching enemy spies. Or grant some buildings (constabularies?) a chance to catch spy/reduce amount of gold/science stolen even if there is no counterspy in the city.

 

[Borussia]

It may be more balanced if the human player can not save a lot of gold for later but it is annoying as hell to be forced to spent gold if I do not want or need right now.
So it makes the game less fun for me.

For example just last turn China stole 11,5k gold from me. That is almost five times their gdp.

 

[bigcat88]

The same for me when I am a warmonger. If I have 10k gold then a few turns later it will be 7k, and a few turns later 5k and so on...

Good if you have a weak AI friend and you just gift gold. Or invest gold in all possible buildings before you will lost it.

 

[pineappledan]

I think it's good that there is a potential risk to hoarding gold. It's something that keeps balance in check and punishes humans for trying to save up for specific unlocks.

 

[saamohod]

I think it's good that there is a potential risk to hoarding gold. It's something that keeps balance in check and punishes humans for trying to save up for specific unlocks.

In my case I gain large sum of gold for capturing a city because of my religious tenet. That was the reason I chose it. If the next turn I lose half of the gold I'd earned, it's not balanced. It's just unfair.

 

[pineappledan]

If the next turn I lose half of the gold I'd earned, it's not balanced. It's just unfair.

Is it? You could spend most of that gold in the same turn if you were that worried about it.

Investing in future buildings, dumping gold into envoys or more military units. Why aren't you spending gold down if you're so scared to lose it? If AIs are stealing >3k gold from you, I honestly think you deserve to lose it. You're either not paying attention to your coffers or you're trying to engage in some dastardly hoomen strategy. If you're not going to put your gold to work, it may as well go to someone who will.

Edit: Sorry if that's a bit too "Git Gud", but the situation you're describing is exactly why this mechanic exists in the first place.

 

[Bascule2000]

Having to spend your money each turn is bad for two reasons; it's tedious, and it reduces your flexibility in decision making. Gold theft should be a function of the gold output of a city rather than the treasury.

 

[Gazebo]

I’m going to tweak this next version to scale the cap off your GPT instead of your full treasury. We’ll try it.

 

[saamohod]

Edit: Sorry if that's a bit too "Git Gud" ...

Never saw it as such. Any contrary opinion is interesting. It's just obvious we have different visions regarding how perfect VP should look like.

 

[Stalker0]

I’m going to tweak this next version to scale the cap off your GPT instead of your full treasury. We’ll try it.

So if I have +200 GPT but I've spent all my gold, is it possible to go into a negative treasury with a gold steal then?

 

[Gazebo]

So if I have +200 GPT but I've spent all my gold, is it possible to go into a negative treasury with a gold steal then?

no. It can’t take more than you have in treasury.

 

[pineappledan]

I’m going to tweak this next version to scale the cap off your GPT instead of your full treasury. We’ll try it.

like 1 turn of consistent gold, not including instant gold sources? That’s all a spy can set you back? Could you at least cap it at 5x GPT?

 

[Gazebo]

like 1 turn of consistent gold, not including instant gold sources? That’s all a spy can set you back? Could you at least cap it at 5x GPT?

I haven't decided the total cap, merely what it will scale off of.

 

[kenneth1221]

I'm in full favor of this change. I think it'll feel more fair. Civ 5 isn't a great economic simulator anyways -- no way to simulate the benefits of running a deficit -- and if this makes the game less micromanagey, all the better. It'll be good to be secure int he knowledge that you can save up for unit upgrades instead of needing to constantly be reinvesting in buildings.

 

[andersw]

I’m going to tweak this next version to scale the cap off your GPT instead of your full treasury. We’ll try it.

Based on GPT could be too low but current system is very punishing if you want to save for upgrades or specific building purchases.
A warmonger doesnt have high GPT but gains large hoards from conquest while ... hrm probably a tradition or progress -> statecraft will have more gpt but spike income isnt as extreme.

 

[saamohod]

I'd like to bring up this issue once again.

Currently playing a game where every other damn turn my 70-100% treasury is stolen from a city.

No, I don't keep my entire treasury in one city.

Losing all my gold every other turn simply doesn't allow me to save the required amount for a single unit upgrade.

Could we make gold stealing more reasonable, please?