Sumeria Random Continents Game

[Harv]

Hi I am posting a start and a 1000 BC save and inviting comments and critique.

In general I struggle the most with finishing games. The online world helps a lot!

The Civilization is Sumeria. (I chose it because I was motivitated by Punctuator starting a "Historical Civ" series and Gilgamesh appears to be the historically earliest of the game's leaders.) The game is Noble / Standard / Continents with otherwise standard settings. Here is the Start:

Spoiler :

4 Cities founded from 4000 BC to 1000 BC:
EDIT: I made a few fixes to the production log and it should be consistent with the T75 situation.

Spoiler :

T0 Uruk - I chose to SIP because I did not wish to risk losing 2 FP on top of a food resource. SIP revealed a corn.
T15 Worker
T30 Warrior
T39 Settler
T42 Granary
T49 Worker
T51 Library
T52 Archer
T60 Settler
T62 Worker
T63 Archer
T70 Settler
T71 Archer

T42 Eridu - I chose this site for the Copper so that (eventually) I can build Vultures.
T60 Granary
T64 Archer
T65 Library
T75 Worker

T62 Kish - This had some food and some flood plains.

T72 Lagash - There is some flood plains for food and I was planning to set up a Fur resource.

I am thinking about placing one city on the coast maybe on the ice cap to claim the Iron and simply be on the coast for trade. The other city will be near the Barbarian City-State to claim the Gold and put some cultural pressure.

I counted 4 Goody Huts:

Spoiler :

T2 - 41g
T3 - 66g from Border Pop
T9 - 21g
T13 - Scout

T69 - Master Bowyer Event - I will have Combat 1 Archers

Research:

Spoiler :

T6 Mining
T18 Bronze Working
T23 Hunting
T31 Animal Husbandry
T37 Pottery
T42 Archery
T49 Writing
T64 Alphabet
T64 Mysticism from Lincoln for Writing
T64 Fishing from Lincoln for Writing
T68 Sailing
T72 Iron Working from Pericles for Mysticism, Sailing, and Writing

Diplomacy and Religion and Civics:

Spoiler :

T40 Adopted Slavery

T11 Somebody (William) founded Buddhism
T20 Somebody founded Hinduism
T68 Somebody founded Judaism

T20 Encountered Catherine of Russia
T25 Encountered Lincoln of America
T44 Encountered Pericles of Greece
T47 Encountered William van Oranje of the Netherlands
T49 Open Borders with Lincoln
T55 Open Borders with Pericles
T58 Open Borders with William van Oranje
T62 Ignored Catherine's request to cancel trade with Lincoln her worst enemy
T74 Open Borders with Catherine

Here is where I am at at Turn 75 or 1000 BC:

Spoiler :

Comparing to DaveMcW's advice for newer players......
Build 6 Cities - X - I am at 4
Hit Control R - Check
Build 1.5 Workers per City - X - Ratio is 1.0 and it probably shows.
Check F9 - Check
Stay near the top in Soldiers - Currently #2

Looking at the Demographics I am near the bottom in terms of Population and Production. The AI probably has some high population unhappy cities. The lack of production is due to a relatively small number of Workers to build mines. Also all four of my cities use a good bit of Flood Plain Farms.

As a self-criticism the research pattern is a bit random towards the end. I might have done better to go straight to Currency after Alphabet. The other option would be to head towards Monarchy as that would give me the Wine and the +1 Military Happiness. Combine that with the Furs and the Gold and I can do quite a bit of whip expansion without having to worry too much about Happiness. I guess I was thinking about the extra production with chopping and the techs opened with Mathematics and letting Currency wait just a little bit longer.

 

[lymond]

Archery is a waste

 

[MarigoldRan]

But we're talking about Combat 1 Drill 1 archers.

 

[Gwynnja]

But we're talking about Combat 1 Drill 1 archers.

 

[vranasm]

I would consider 4 cities at T75 not enough on noble difficulty.
you probably built too much infra (can't check the save now)

archery was waste (you have copper).

it's city garrison 1 not combat.

 

[Amao]

Excuse my memory. I thought Harv was participating NC games and was above Noble already.

 

[Sian]

build more cities, Sumeria got Ziggurats which allows them to be able to push expansion quite hard.

I'd explore a bit to the east of Eridu trying to block off the land to the NE, which from what i can see would fit 3-4 (depending on seafood) reasonablely good cities, and then push expansion south and southwest (those pigs southwest of Lagash is a prime city ... better than Lagash itself IMO)

 

[Harv]

Firstly I am going to try to address the feedback in turn.

Lymond *studies avatar carefully*

MarigoldRan
Combat 1 Drill 1 Archers!

Gwynnja


Vranasm
4 Cities very low and therefore I built too much infrastructure
Archery is a waste since I have copper

Indeed after the T69 event they are Combat 1 Drill 1 Archers. Hopefully the fact that they are also City Garrison 1 is never really becomes relevant to the discussion. When I made the decision to research Archery I had not yet discovered the Eridu city site or the Copper and did not see myself with improved units by the time the Barbarians come calling on the cities.

Amao
Indeed I posted some Sitting Bull and Washington from Nobles Club and never did finish them. That was a very long time ago - You have a long memory!

Also about a year and a half ago, I posted a successful Noble Inca, then a successful Prince Sitting Bull, started a Monarch Hatty but then was away from computer for about a year. I also started on a few Earth games and got them to a point where we could choose and execute a victory.

I was thinking playing at Noble level is about the basics of the game - which ones are mastered and which ones are lacking. So it looks like my city founding is a bit slow and my research a bit unfocused. (Worker Techs ----> Currency with Sailing likely in between)

Sian
Indeed building cities until the economy crashes then running scientists and whipping Ziggurats seems to be a good idea.

Edit: Updated to current situation:

Turn 115 - 1AD
9 Cities - There are 3 more decent sites I can grab
1 Settler - Need 2 more
11 Workers - I will need 7 more to get 1.5 x 12 = 18
1 Scout
2 Warriors
9 Archers - Combat 1 City Garrison 1 Drill 1
5 Vultures
9 Swordsmen - I probably need about that many Catapults
Demographics - Slipped to #2 in Production
Slider is at 40% and 6gpt and 57 Science researching Metal Casting

Cities and Production to 1AD:

Spoiler :

Uruk
T77 Worker
T81 Settler
T82 Vulture
T86 Archer
T88 Barracks
T90 Vulture
T98 Vulture
T102 Ziggurat
T108 Academy from Isaac Newton
T110 Swordsman
T112 Settler
T115 Swordsman

Eridu
T76 Vulture
T78 Worker
T85 Barracks
T89 Vulture
T94 Worker
T98 Swordsman
T100 Swordsman
T102 Swordsman
T107 Swordsman
T109 Worker
T111 Swordsman

Kish
T76 Granary
T80 Library
T86 Settler
T92 Settler
T93 Archer
T95 Archer
T102 Ziggurat
T109 Barracks
T114 Worker
T115 Swordsman

Lagash
T89 Granary
T96 Library
T97 Archer
T102 Ziggurat
T103 Archer
T115 Settler

Ur founded T83
T86 Work Boat
T96 Granary
T103 Lighthouse
T107 Library

Nibru founded T88
I forgot to take a picture of this one.
T101 Granary
T102 Library
T109 Barracks
T113 Swordsman

Bulgar captured T92
T104 Granary
T108 Library

Bad-Tibra founded T95

Zimbur founded T114

The production log seems to be missing 2 Workers and 1 Settler.

Research to 1AD:

Spoiler :

T78 Mathematics
T93 Currency
T93 Meditation from William for Mathematics and 55g
T95 Priesthood
T104 Monarchy
T105 Polytheism from Lincoln for Meditation, Priesthood and 5g
T107 Masonry
T113 Construction

 

[Harv]

Here is my game up to 1000AD.

Spoiler :

Research:
T120 Metal Casting
T123 Calendar from Lincoln for Construction
T124 Code of Laws - Founded Confucianism in Kish
T134 Machinery
T143 Feudalism
T154 Guilds

Cities Founded:
Shurrapak T118
Umma T134

At Turn 131 (400AD) I had:
10 Cities
1 Settler
13 Workers
1 Scout
2 Warriors
14 Archers
7 Vultures
10 Swordsmen
7 Catapults

I decided to DOW Catherine and invaded with 10 Swords 1 Vulture 7 Catapults and 1 Archer. I followed with 2 Vultures, 2 Catapults and 1 Archer.

Spoiler :

T132 Captured Yaroslavl

T135 Captured Moscow

T136 Captured Novgorod

T141 Captured St. Petersburg

T145 Captured and Razed Yakutsk

T149 Captured Rostov

T152 Captured Yekaterinburg

T155 Captured Vladivostok - Destroyed Russian Civilization

So basically it took 25 turns to defeat the Russians. It felt like a long time so I am not sure if that is too slow. I am thinking I should aim to achieve whatever objective I am trying to acheive in ten turns or less at normal speed.

I am thinking of taking a few turns to rebuild the economy. Currently I am not sure if I am running a CE (Crashed Economy) or a BE. (Bankrupt Economy) Science seems to be going okay and I balance at about 25% slider.

Washington has the Great Lighthouse, but also has Longbows. I think he is my next target and I will attack with Crossbows and Catapults and maybe later with Trebuchets and Musketmen. After that it is Pericles, then William.

For Technology I am thinking Gunpowder - Engineering - Compass - Optics - Astronomy. That should get me to the other continent and therefore that should be all the tech I really need. After that I am thinking of either Rifling or Steel.

Here is my situation at Turn 160. A save is attached.

Spoiler :

ADDIT: I should be able to clean up this game and set up another one early in the next week, but will not be able to play it until after the August Long.
I am thinking of playing Babylon on a either Prince or Monarch.

 

[vranasm]

My poor attempt to 1k BC

got around 380 gold (this leads to some serious abuse!) from huts + 2 scouts

teched mining->pottery->bw->ah->writing->math->currency (finished now), starting on CoL

got the health event and went for it even if it probably costed me 1 settler.

screens

Spoiler :

 

[Harv]

Indeed you got 6 cities and 1 settler by not building granaries or libraries.

Looking at your research, what made you research mining first? If you wanted to cottage the flood plains why not pottery first? Anyway you researched that second, then Bronze Working. After that you got Animal Husbandry just in case and it was a beeline to Currency from there.

Actually it was from you that I have been learning to beeline Currency!

Question: Why did you start Code of Laws? The Sumerians have the Ziggurat as a lower cost replacement to the Courthouse and you get that with Priesthood.

........

Here is my game up to Turn 185, 1250AD:

Spoiler :

Resarched:
T164 Gunpowder
T165 Civil Service from Pericles for Feudalism + 30g
T165 Monotheism and Aesthetics and 40g from William for Metal Casting
T170 Engineering
T173 Paper
T174 Literature
T176 Drama
T178 Music - I actually got the Great Artist!

Started a war with Lincoln on T174

I trashed a few opportunity units and invaded with a force of 4 Muskets, 8 Crossbows, 11 Swords, and 17 Catapults.

T175 Captured Philadelphia

T178 Captured Washington and all of its Wonders

T180 Captured New York

T182 Captured Boston

and Seattle - What kind of garbage was that city?

T184 Captured Chicago

T185 Captured Atlanta

I probably should have trashed this one kept it because I could get a couple of buildings going and work with the trade routes.

I will take a few turns to reorganize my troops. The Vultures and Swordsmen are no longer useful so will serve as garrison until I get the motivation to upgrade them to Maces. Then with Trebs and Muskets I am thinking about marching on Pericles next, simply because he is closer.

There is a Wonder Hog on the other continent. I think he is Huyana Capac. Whoever it is he also founded Hinduism and built the Apostolic Palace.

Is this continent big enough to tag a Domination win or do I need to tech Astronomy?

As for Tech, I am working on Chemistry then I might Education - Liberalism - slingshot Steel then tech Compass - Optics - Astronomy. Depending on how the next wars go I might slingshot Astronomy instead.

 

[vranasm]

well that's true I didn't need the mining before pottery because I didn't built mines in cap forever... I initially thought I eventually would, but it didn't worked that way out (they are brown...so kind of meh).

and yes... the CoL wasn't the brightest idea... forgot that zigs are in PH... should have went for Oracle probably.

 

[Harv]

Here is the rest of the game:

Research:

Spoiler :

T186 Chemistry
T193 Education
and Printing Press from Bulb
T196 Philosophy
T201 Liberalism - I beat William by a few turns
and Steel from Liberalism Slingshot
T203 Compass
T218 Astronomy
T220 Banking
I left off researching Replacable Parts

Turn 191 I went after Pericles with Swords and Crossbows and Muskets and Trebuchets.

Spoiler :

Turn 192 Mycanae

Turn 193 Pharsalos

Turn 194 Knossus

Turn 197 Corinth

and Ephesus

Turn 201 Argos

and Athens

Turn 203 Thebes

I did not leave much defense among my stacks of Muskets so I had to retake Athens

Turn 205 Sparta

I rested up a few turns and on Turn 210, 1500AD I declared on William and marched mainly with Muskets and Cannons.

Spoiler :

Here is my military situation at the time

and Williams

This is one turn later - William sent his stack after me

It did not survive long. Turn 212 Minoan falls

and The Hague

Turn 214 the fall of Nijmegen

and some Knights rolled in to grab Rotterdam

Turn 215 Amsterdam

Turn 217 Utrecht

Turn 218 Maastricht to finish off the Dutch

By Turn 221, 1555AD, I had two caravels sail to the other Continent and encountered Carthage and Babylon but it was too late in the game to build Galleons and conquer them too.

Spoiler :

I was not exagerrating when I said I have trouble finishing games. This is about six months after I got this particular computer.

Spoiler :

I enjoyed playing this (Noble Gilgamesh Musket Cannon Domination Curbstomp) and plan to start another one in the first week of August. I am thinking of either Babylon or Egypt.

I am thinking about using the same settings but changing the difficulty to Monarch. Most of my experience on Monarch level is from playing the Earth18 Scenario and I am guessing it is a Monarch Light as far as Barbarians.

What changes should I expect? I am expecting to be out teched by some AI until the middle part of the Classical Era - or until I have some plan or economy together. Also the Barbarians start with Archery if I am not mistaken and they are a bigger threat.