Super Civs

[solanacea]

What he means is that, because you were Empyrean and (presumably) most of your units were Empyrean, you were giving Basium more angels every time you lost a unit in combat. Each time a living unit that follows one of the 'good' religions (Order, Empyrean, Runes) dies, he gets another angel. If he was ripping through your defences and sacking all your cities, his army would be growing bigger and bigger each time.

This fits in with the lore (good people join the angels in the afterlife, bad people join the demons) but has always seemed a bit off to me, gameplay-wise. Essentially, you would have had a much easier time of it if you'd been following AV or something. It also encourages a human Mercurian player to declare war on good civs instead of evil ones, which is very silly, lore-wise, for a guy who was summoned to Erebus in the first place so that he could fight demons.

Perhaps Mercurians should only get good guys killed by evil guys. These souls come back to Erebus for revenge. If a good guy dies of a heart attack or gets killed by Basium, he doesn't become a Mercurian.

 

[Onionsoilder]

I still find their lack of power weird since they are supposed to have people from all nations flocking to them.

As do I. They need a major overhaul, they are way too weak in general, and their most lore-appropriate victory(Altar of the Luonnotar) is one of the hardest, due to a lack of temples. Turning them into an atheist superpower is a bad idea though.

 

[Tielby]

I still find their lack of power weird since they are supposed to have people from all nations flocking to them.

Personally, I find their lack of faith... disturbing.

 

[Darksaber1]

Awww, that what I was gona say.

 

[Tasunke]

The grigori have very clearly stated to be a simple farming community/ country. Cassiel is their "leader" but he does not wish to be worshipped and refuses from using even his own power. Economically they do not approve of specialists, nor are they expansive cottage builders. Instead, they are simple farming communities that attract adventurers. Its rather impossible for them to achieve any mission other than 1. be a safe haven for all walks of people ... until being invaded. 2. wait for the gods to finally come to terms and to strengthen the compact (or whatever fits the force sphere, whatever everyone agrees upon, assuredly) ... unless they are invaded first. and 3. To manage to become the perfect switzerland, and outlast all the other countries which are killing each other, by never partaking in the wars.

Alas, for gaming purposes, I like to see someone younger, more mortal, and more passionate to take charge, obviously fueled by Cassiel's sentiments and wisdoms, but driven for change in a more warlike direction.

 

[Bob the Barbari]

Here is the whole idea.
A guild/order/brotherhood of something (I couldn't make up a good name).
Its headquarters can be founded by any neutral civ once Hyborem or Basium enters the world. It can be constructed by a Great Person preferably a Great Commander and maybe someone else.
Once founded any neutral civ can construct Brotherhood's Quarters in their cities. It gives a defense bonus against non-living units attacking the city and allows you to build a basic fighter not requiring any technology or resources with +20% against angels and demons.
It can then be upgraded to one of three other units with an appropriate technology (I haven't decided which ones):
a melee fighter with equal attack and defence +50% vs. demons
an archer with more defence than attack +50% vs. angels
a horseman with more attack than defence +30% against both angels and demons.
All units have a -50% attack against living units and -100% attack against all Brotherhood members. They can use all kinds of weapons with an exception of mithril weapons for basic fighter.
All units have a unique ability that can only be used in cities with a Brotherhood's Quarters - buy equipment which allows you to buy a promotion for them: Cover I, Shock I, Formation I (basicly the idea is to specialise them even more). Each subsequent promotion cost three times more.
Brotherhood Headquarters serves the same purpose as Quarters plus it allows you to buy equipment at half the price.
None of the units can have a religion (to avoid them being rised as manes/angels). I was also thinking about a disciple unit with some anti-angel and anti-demon spells.

Regardin their origins. They are a bunch of people that does not like the idea of angels and demons fighting their wars in Erebus. They are much more realistic than Grigori and believe that the only way to make it happen is through the use of weapon. They don't care much for wars between humans/elves/dwarves/orcs, and are ready to fight under any banner, but they generally avoid killing living beings unles forced to do so.

 

[William12123]

Seems like a nice idea. But how would the influence of the "brotherhood" spread? Like a religion, or a corporation? Would a third, neutral council also be useful to these guys?

I understand why so many people would be opposed to the idea of a grigori superpower, but they are the only real oponent to religious servitude on Erebus. And they need a better alternative to luonnotar that have become harder and harder to get as the game evolved; they need something to compensate for their agnosticism!

Maybe the brotherhood could be intricately associated with the grigori, like the empyrian is with the malakim.

 

[Rystic]

Should be like the Brotherhood of Wardens.

 

[Bob the Barbari]

I was thinking about two ways to spread it:
1) no spread - it just becomes available to any neutral civ. You just need to construct a Brotherhood's Quarters
2) spread through units like the Council of Essus (for a price) and a small chance to spread on its own even to cities that already have a religion. The Brotherhood could be a "religion" for practical purposes only - all its units would have it as a religion so they would automaticly be excempt from becoming angels/manes. It could not be adopted as a state religion and its "shrine" would not provide money. Unfortunatelly there could be some problems with inquisition especially as Grigori (that is inquisition should not purge it from cities as it is not really a religion).
Making it foundable by Grat Commanders and Adventurers would make it associated with Grigori in a way.
I don't really see a reason for any new council.
I like the name Brotherhood of Wardens. Sounds nice and makes sense.

 

[UNIT 666]

If there's a neutral civ along the lines of the Mercurians and the Infernals, this neutral civ should definitely be raising the Armageddon Counter; they are a powerful ally, but there is a great cost for bringing them into Erebus.