Superweapons

[civ editor11]

No I was using the goody hut as an example to show that the star forge might be used as a goody hut that gives you a special building in a nearby city or a unit or something that you could only get if you had a dark side unit or religion. Sorry for misphrasing that.

 

[Jawa'sRevenge]

Starforge should be an improvement (preplaced)

Superweapons should be weak but have extreme power eg Death Star: can destroy planets easily destroyed by a small group of fighters

This is not realistic but I can't think a good gameplay way around it besides using hero units to destroy them or sabotaging them

 

[civ editor11]

What should the star forge do? In the movies they were extremely hard to destroy so why not use my idea of a promotion/mission to give a small chance of destroying the superwaepons. I'm pretty sure the hardest part would be getting the AI to understand it. I might be able to add in through the SDK. and then later I could merge it with CAR and The land transport mod when they get it working.

 

[TC01]

The issue is that it wouldn't be as simple as adding a mission to CvEnums.h. If that was all it would take, then I would probably learn SDK modding and do it myself- I've wanted to start SDK stuff for some time. It's just the compilation part that's held me back.

I don't know what it would require, or how to implement it. That's why I think it would be better to either make superweapons weak, or make them strong but unable to attack, and give a promotion that gives +100% against UNITCOMBAT_SUPERWEAPON.

 

[civ editor11]

We'll just make it plus 100% against superweapons because in the movies the superweapons are invincible except for a few minor flaws we could call it random luck or something like that.

 

[Jawa'sRevenge]

We'll just make it plus 100% against superweapons because in the movies the superweapons are invincible except for a few minor flaws we could call it random luck or something like that.

There is not luck its all the force

 

[civ editor11]

Lando Calrissan destroyed the second Death Star without the force we can review the name but do you agree with the idea is what I need to know now so that I may add it in soon or decide to just leave it out and do something else.

 

[T_KCommanderbly]

land a special forces team in there and blow it up, at least thats what i would do to defeat a superweapon, special forces is going to be a unit class maybe we could use bounty hunters, special forces and spys that have the special ability to board and have a chance to destroy a super weapon

 

[Jawa'sRevenge]

Ways to destroy a superweapon:

Sabatoge:can prevent the production of the unit (looses all hammers) and can't built it for a while

Hero: Hero unit destroys the superweapon

Suicidal strike: ram a large ship into it and hope it blows up

Jedi: Jedi destroy it

Starfighter Run: Small fighters launch an attack on a weak point

Massive Force: Huge Ship attack


BTW: Lando doesn't need the force to destory Death Stars; he's Billy Dee

 

[civ editor11]

I gues we could try all of those but now we have to decide how to make them work right.

 

[Kissamies]

Superweapons should be a late game feature that upsets the status quo. Should be very costly to build, but give the builder a good chance of winning the whole game. It's late game, after all. Could have some very specific ways to destroy them, but it shouldn't be easy. Sacrificing a hero unit sounds like one acceptable trade.

 

[Jawa'sRevenge]

Superweapons should be a late game feature that upsets the status quo. Should be very costly to build, but give the builder a good chance of winning the whole game. It's late game, after all. Could have some very specific ways to destroy them, but it shouldn't be easy. Sacrificing a hero unit sounds like one acceptable trade.

Yes, anyone with a Death Star or the like could easily rule the galaxy.

Take an alternate Clone Wars as an example:

Lets say the Separatists weren't controlled by the sith, nor was the republic. The war goes on for years with the Separatists being pushed back into the rim, but it drags on. The Separatists build there ultimate weapon: The Death Star. Fly it to a key republic world and threaten to blow it up (or blow up a bunch of planets). Sepys win. 2 major power in the galaxy.


Hero units are the best idea I could think of:

You start out with some, some are assigned to you a specific time, other for building wonders, discovering techs... but they are very rare and precious.

 

[TC01]

Maybe we could add a Superweapon victory? Broken Star (packaged with BTS) has a Nukes Victory (or something like that) where if you have armed a certain amount of nukes (in that mod you have to capture and then arm nukes before using them) you win. Perhaps controlling X superweapons for Y turns each = victory.

If you don't do this in the main mod, perhaps I'll make a modmod along these lines. Or a scenario.

 

[civ editor11]

Once we get a working version out then we can start talking about scenarios, but I do agree on making the superweapon victory. I'll see if maybe I could add it into the SDK. So what have we decided on here?

Centerpoint Station=can move planets, can create massive gravity wells(slow ship movement a lot)
Star Forge=if under control of a dark side civ can produce 1 random unit per turn
Death Stars=destroy planets
World Devastator=eats planet square by square and can produce units (think mongol camp from warlords)
Sun Crusher=makes a small supernova destroys all units and planets within a given radius
Galaxy Gun=Can destroy any planet it wants 1 per turn

Ad some hero promotions that makes it so that you can destroy them. I'll see if I should add special code into the SDK for that or should it be in python?

Eventually we might also have a superweapon victory option to replace the space race. We haven't decided on this one yet so we'll have to work on it.

Does anyone think we should add or take anything away from this list?

 

[TC01]

Centerpoint Station won't be moving planets. Too annoying to implement. It will do this:

However, the gravity well works slightly better. I can make a recolor of the Black Hole to represent the Gravity Well (or just use the original Black Hole, whatever would be better) and then shrink it slightly to act as a feature created when it nukes something. It could then slow units nearby.

I'm also adding the Dark Reaper, unless anyone has any objections to that...?

The hero promotions would be easy to add, and wouldn't require SDK at all. You would give all Superweapons UNITCOMBAT_SUPERWEAPON, then make Superweapons very, very strong but give them bDefensiveOnly (so they could not attack other then nuke, but would be near invincibile defending). Then, you give the anti-Superweapon promotions +1000 (or something) percent against UNITCOMBAT_SUPERWEAPON.

No SDK or Python required.

 

[civ editor11]

The SDK or python work would be to make them die afterwards. i only want it to be a chance they'll win like 1 out of 10 chance it does nothing, 2 out of 10 chance the unit dies, 4 out of 10 chance the unit is just damaged, and finally 3 out of 10 chance they kill the superweapon. These are just beggining numbers because there wasn't a sure chance you'll kill a superweapon just a chance and I think this works nicely towards that purpose. I could add this into the SDK easily if I was given a chance. That means if you guys like the idea I'll add them in. If not we'll go with TC01's idea, or if someone suggests something else we could also go with that.
Does anyone have an idea on the Superweapon victory condition? Should I add it in or what, and what is it going to be. My current idea is that it is if you have 2 superweapons for 10-30 consecutive turns you win the game. I would have to add a new victory screen for this. that would probaly be the hardest part.

 

[Jawa'sRevenge]

Super weapon Victory:

Death Star:

Build it like a space ship
If it survives for ten turns then you win

is there a way to get the other civs to throw all they have into this attack or to get them to sacrifice heros. I worry the AI will not do it.

 

[civ editor11]

Then we're going to have to teach the AI how to do it. I've been looking at BBAI's code and I think I understand it enough that I can progam the AI to go for the victory condition and kill anyone else who gets close.
One Death Star isn't enough I still think it should be any 2 superweapons for 15 consecutive turns.

 

[Kissamies]

If not an outright victory condition, the mere existence of a superweapon could cause unhappiness in enemy cities. See "Tarkin Doctrine."

I think a hero unit should be the most reliable way of taking out a superweapon, but there should be other ways to try depending which one it is. The Death Star is vulnerable to trench run, for example. Trying to attack with massive fleets could be worth a try as well. I don't think many of them have much of a defense against direct attack.

To give ideas for Centerpoint:
Maybe it was built to move planets, but the ways we have actually seen it used are different. Bear in mind that nobody could really figure out how exactly it worked. It took a very long time for anyone to figure out what it even is. So what have we seen it do?
First Corellian Insurrection: Make stars go nova, generate a huge interdiction field around the Corellian system to stop hyperspace travel and block FTL communications.
Yuuzhan Vong War: Destroy fleets of spaceships, clipped a bit of Fondor's surface too. Could probably ravage a planet's surface.

 

[Jawa'sRevenge]

Trying to attack with massive fleets could be worth a try as well. I don't think many of them have much of a defense against direct attack.

Didn't somebody try that in he book "Death Star" and fail really badly?

It would probably work, but the in the movie they imply that the small fighters evade there turbo-lasers so they must have a purpose so I assume they take down large ships. the Death Star wars meant to take down a direct assault, but if you had a lot of warships a guess it could work. Could a planetary ion cannon disable the Death Star.

A bit of a rant