Supply Lines

[Teabeard]

One of my biggest gripes about warfare in CIV is that you can move your army half across the map, deep into enemy territory, without any consequences whatsoever. Armies have to be supplied or else they will perish. So I propose that armies can operate only so far from a friendly city or base. Look at the way air units currently operate in CIV3 and you'll see a good example of what I am proposing for land units. When you set a air unit on a mission it can operate only withing so many squares of the city, career, or airfield in which it is based. This should also be true of land units to prevent armies from marching deep into unknown territory... that is VERY unrealistic. When an army operates beyond it's borders it needs to be connected to a friendly city or base by a road or rail line. Look what happened to the Germany army at Stalingrad when it was cut off and surrounded. Why doesn't this ever happen in CIV?

I also want to say that I think some units, such as scouts and explorers, should be exempted from supply lines. This is because scouts can basically live off the land through hunting and gathering, but it isn't realistic for an army to live off the land like that.

To summarize my proposal: I think you should be able to send your scout all over the map anywhere you want, but you should not be able to do this with your army. If you want to send your army somewhere it needs to be connected to supply lines so that it won't end up like the German 6th army...

 

[plastiqe]

This is a good idea. So much so that there are two other threads about it.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85408
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85496
And I'm pretty sure this would only affect modern armies. Ancient armies like the Romans or Huns or whoever should be able to live off the land they were conquering.

As for scouts, I'd like to see them available with a starting tech, whichever was available to Expansionist civs. The Expansionists could still get a free one, but other civs would be able to learn this tech and make their own scouts right at the beginning.

 

[Teabeard]

I only registered a few days ago so I don't know all that has been suggested.

Anyway, isn't it good to propose good ideas over and over? The more we propose it the more likely it will be added.

 

[sabo]

Well maybe supply lines should be introduced into the industrial and modern age. Supply wasn't that big a factor in ancient times as the armies pillaged and lived off the lands (The Mongol Hoard, Alexander the Great, and the Vikings come to mind)

 

[Teabeard]

Well maybe supply lines should be introduced into the industrial and modern age. Supply wasn't that big a factor in ancient times as the armies pillaged and lived off the lands (The Mongol Hoard, Alexander the Great, and the Vikings come to mind)

Maybe it would add a new dimension to pillaging if armies didn't just do it to cut off supplies to enemy cities, but also to survive. I think if some sort of supply system is implemented then it should be possible for armies in enemy territory to supply themselves to some extent by pillaging.

Edit: And also, how about getting some gold from pillaging? That would make playing as vikings more interesting because you could go on raids and pillage for gold and stuff.

 

[plastiqe]

Vikings are already interesting they have all the hot Sweedish chicks.

Even though there is a lot of support for this idea, I am against it. I kinda think that if you send an army deep into enemy territory, where it has no place to heal, and the enemy can quickly mass units against you, that is enough of a disadvantage. Giving another bonus off pillaging is overkill. Pillaging is already good enough with taking out a citys production, trade and growth (although you should be able to choose which part you pillage, and I think roads shouldn't be built on ever tile).

Naval supply lines would be really easy if we based them on our caravans though.

 

[Teabeard]

I don't think roads should ever be able to be pillaged. It sounds kinda stupid to pillage a road, right? But if you want to cut off supplies to a city you should be able to do that just by having troops on an enemy's roads thus blocking the flow of goods and supplies.

 

[Dwarven Zerker]

I only registered a few days ago so I don't know all that has been suggested.

Anyway, isn't it good to propose good ideas over and over? The more we propose it the more likely it will be added.

/Threadjack on
No. Although the development team for Firaxis peruses this forum to get an idea of what us players want that is all this forum does. If they decide a proposed idea is unworthy of inclusion in Civ IV I doubt repeating it ad naseum would convince the developers to add said feature.
/Threadjack off

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Though historically it may be true that ancient armies 'lived off the land' I think that for gameplay balance supply lines should apply across the board! If only to stop that stupid 1000 year old warrior that goes all around the world !
Anyway, my suggestion was quite simple-all units had an operational range, in hexes (the distance a unit could travel outside its own borders) for every hex you travelled beyond your OR, the more degraded your firepower, morale and armour becomes. In addition, it also gives a % chance each turn of the unit losing a HP!
In my model, special operations units and settlers/workers would have the highest OR. Foot soldiers would have the next highest, followed by cavalry then mechanised units, with harsh terrain (desert, jungle tundra etc) halving your operational range UNLESS the unit was able to 'ignore' those terrains effects (like a jaguar warrior ignoring the OR cost of jungles). In addition, units with a 'pillage' ability could use it to extend their survival in hostile territory by 1 turn (without degredation or hp loss!)

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Teabeard]

Aussie Lurker, that's essentially what I am proposing. Armies would operate within a certain operating radius of bases and cities, just as Aircraft currently do.

 

[douche_bag]

no this whole idea would get too annoying.I mean wouldnt they bring a bunch of food and resources with them?

 

[troytheface]

supplies lines had an affect on ancinet armies as well...without ships the persian army was defeated in the center of greece due in part to lack of supplies...a roman emperor who invaded eastern sythia, or parthia or something got wiped out due in part to the enemy being able to keep up a constant resupply of arrows...The Roman Empire was successful due in large part to roads which were built as ...military supply lines...
The mongols, vikings and alexander..(mentioned as living off the land types of civs) broke apart soon ...they did not have the endurance or longevity of civs with a logistical supply line structure in place.

 

[plastiqe]

If there were supply lines they have to be really really simple. Maybe they can go back to units requiring sheilds for upkeep or something like that. I think any kind of system where you have units delivering supplies would be too much micromanagement. Ahh! I sound like one of those people that doesn't like caravans!!

 

[rhialto]

I think going back to shields is a necessary but not sufficient step. In civ3, ther ei sno effective control over army size. One gold per unit in an endgame economy that can generate hundreds of gold wihout breaking a sweat is not a meaningful cost.

 

[Teabeard]

How about units do not only require resources to build - they also require resources to be maintained? As it is now one oil supplies your entire empire, and I don't think that is right. How about every oil resource supplied 3 cities, or ten units, or something like that? I think the amount of units you can maintain should be dependent on how much of a necessary resource you have. If you suddenly lose your only oil resource then your tanks should turn either disappear or go into some dormant mode where they can't move.