Survivalism or Scouting for Scouts?

[darkace77450]

Until my last game I've always just grabbed Scouting for the extra sight, since those ruins can be a huge boon during the game's dawn. But last time I went with Survivalism, and my Scouts hung around a lot longer than they usually do. I'm still leaning Scouting, but I thought I'd pick your collective brains on the subject.

 

[miaasma]

survivalism usually, although i don't think there's really a correct answer. it depends on how good you are at avoiding damage on your scouts, and i'm admittedly pretty terrible at it

the reduced time on healing is also nice and sort of indirectly adds to your scouting ability

 

[Sclb]

Survivalism if I'm planning to use the scout as bait to draw city fire for archer/CB rush, otherwise Scouting. It's much easier to avoid damage if you're able to see 3 tiles away.

 

[inthesomeday]

I put survivalism on 1 and use it to supplement for escorts, then sight on the rest to post on borders

 

[zxcvbob]

Survivalism first if I'm playing with raging barbs, then the extra sight if they get a second promotion. (my scouts almost never get a 3rd promo) If no raging barbs, I'll give him 2 scouting promotions.

Sometimes after I have a barracks and barbarians are sort of under control, I'll build a scout to use as a spotter for my siege units. He gets the sight promotion first, raging barbs or not.

 

[Mahasona]

If the scout is still near home then Scouting, he'll be able to see those juicy ruins better.

If he's deep into enermy territory ruins are less likely, so Survivalism.

 

[PurplyIcy]

I only take Survivalism when I'm playing as Germany.

 

[redwings1340]

I generally go survivalism, but I'm not sure that's right. It depends on the situation. If I have to have them explore a lot of the map, and I'm sending them off on their own, I like the extra healing and better defense. It keeps them alive and also makes them able to kill off lightly defended barbarian camps themselves sometimes. This can be useful and can steal a city state friendship for a few turns early game.

 

[zxcvbob]

Survivalism if I'm planning to use the scout as bait to draw city fire for archer/CB rush, otherwise Scouting. It's much easier to avoid damage if you're able to see 3 tiles away.

It's really frustrating to give him Scouting, and he can still only see one tile because the terrain is all forested or jungles w/o hills. BTDT

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I always use scouting unless, as Sclb already mentioned, I am using my scout to draw fire from a CS while getting exp on my archers.

 

[Callonia]

Survivalism is too useful and generally safe to go for promotion to me. However there was extremely rare occasions when I chose the Scouting over Survivalism. These tend to be when I'm near civilizations and they're feeling extremely aggressive towards me in ancient-classical era. Extra vision can be a lifesaver in 2nd and 3rd and more wars. Catch is that they need to wage in battles and survive that early first war.

They was pretty super useful in those early wars but after those early wars end, their usefulness fall off fast while survivalism scouts continue to be useful in scouting faroff lands and busting those barbarians while battling for ancient ruins. And if you're lucky, you get a tougher ranged unit from a unit upgrade in ancient ruins!

Most I ever had was four survivalism ranged units. Becareful with them though because AI seems to really want the survivalism ranged units dead. Most of mine die when they become gatling guns. lol

Shoshone must be quite amazing because they can just select the unit upgrade on their experienced scouts.

 

[yosefm]

One more point for survivalism is that the scout is useful late-game if he happens to find an upgrade to archer in the ruins. In this case he will be in battles and would use the survivalism to push forward. If you know you have probably found all the ruins you're going to, then the point is irrelevant.

 

[beetle]

It seems like a no-brainer to me. The main role of scouts is unfogging the map. One promotion helps with that, and the other leaves a trivially easy to kill unit slightly less trivially easy to kill.

OTOH, maybe if knew for sure my scout would be upgraded, Survivalism would be a terrific buff! I need to try that the next time I play Shoshone...

 

[zxcvbob]

It seems like a no-brainer to me. The main role of scouts is unfogging the map. One promotion helps with that, and the other leaves a trivially easy to kill unit slightly less trivially easy to kill.

OTOH, maybe if knew for sure my scout would be upgraded, Survivalism would be a terrific buff! I need to try that the next time I play Shoshone...

Scouting and Survivalism are both great promotions for ranged units; you can't go wrong with either one. (Machinegun with extra defense and healing on the front lines, vs a machinegun that can sit on a hill and spot for your artillery and battleships. I'll take one of each, please!)

 

[Sclb]

Survivalism is too useful and generally safe to go for promotion to me. However there was extremely rare occasions when I chose the Scouting over Survivalism. These tend to be when I'm near civilizations and they're feeling extremely aggressive towards me in ancient-classical era. Extra vision can be a lifesaver in 2nd and 3rd and more wars. Catch is that they need to wage in battles and survive that early first war.

They was pretty super useful in those early wars but after those early wars end, their usefulness fall off fast while survivalism scouts continue to be useful in scouting faroff lands and busting those barbarians while battling for ancient ruins. And if you're lucky, you get a tougher ranged unit from a unit upgrade in ancient ruins!

What is survivalism useful for? As soon as barbs or other have swordmans, you're pretty much dead with or without it. Unless you know you can upgrade the scout into an archer, it's pretty much not needed.

Becareful with them though because AI seems to really want the survivalism ranged units dead. Most of mine

This is false and AI doesn't focus fire them, it's the lack of other units that kills them.

They was pretty super useful in those early wars but after those early wars end, their usefulness fall off fast while survivalism scouts continue to be useful in scouting faroff lands and busting those barbarians while battling for ancient ruins. And if you're lucky, you get a tougher ranged unit from a unit upgrade in ancient ruins!

Good luck using survivalism against barb knights or XB.

 

[Volcanon]

What is the max upgrades for the scout anyway? I've had them get to level 3 but no farther, because at some point it's impossible for scouts to get any XP without getting one-shotted. Something like three levels of scouting and survivalism plus maybe blitz?

 

[Sclb]

You can get as high as you want for scouts, but you have to use it on CS/AI to level up and it is difficult to do so while surviving. Best case scenario is you just train against another AI scout. Scouting III actually provides +1 movement.

 

[Volcanon]

At some point if you get high enough there's no more promotions except free healing though, no? There's no Survivalism IV, for example.

 

[Makenshi]

I play with unlimited barb xp and faster promotions mods, so let me tell you: a pair of scouts with survivalism3 + scouting3 + medic2 are THE awesome.

But in the unmodded game, where xp never goes to high, I guess survivalism is the way to go. Also, always send them in pairs. Seriously, ALWAYS, it does wonders to both the scout's life expectancy and their scouting activities

 

[Callonia]

What is survivalism useful for? As soon as barbs or other have swordmans, you're pretty much dead with or without it. Unless you know you can upgrade the scout into an archer, it's pretty much not needed.


This is false and AI doesn't focus fire them, it's the lack of other units that kills them.


Good luck using survivalism against barb knights or XB.

1. Well those scouts tend to be not alone, they generally have an exploring frigate or two supporting them as they race to isolated islands with ruins on them. Sometimes it pays off and turns my excess survivialism scouts into archer. Other times it just was a waste of time.

2. Lack of other units is not a problem I usually have. I tend to have a carpet of doom. Its the Range 1 that gets my scouting gatling guns killed. Need range 2.

3. Survivalism, I don't use those scouts offensively against medieval barbarians unless they're working in a team with other soldiers of mine. Plus they heal faster which help them run around scouting making sure there's not a giant horde headed for my wounded army group which's still recuperating. It've saved my units from certain death alot because scouts heal fast and scouted then discovered an angry group of barbarians that wanted to avenge their destroyed encampment and let me have time to protect the most wounded soldiers by surrounding them with most recovered units. Or see that barbarian horde/ enemy civ horde is too dang big for my wounded army to handle so I decide to retreat to safety immediately.

Just too dang useful for me generally.