Sweden in G&K has so many lol-inducing features..
- Thread starter Baleur
- Start date
Morningcalm
Keeper of Records
Also Sioux, Poland, Hebrews, Khazars, Kongo, Majahapit, Gran Colombia, Mali (unlikely to be added though), Hittites and Assyrians...
Europe really is overrepresented in comparison to other geographical areas right now, but I'm ok with that so long as they continue to add interesting civs (like Polynesia) to the mix. I like the fact that the expansion is showing more civs from the early modern era, we don't see many 16th-18th century leaders in Civ, and Sweden is a great addition generally, as well as in having Gustav Adolphus.
I wonder how his AI will play....right now nearly all the AIs have the same logic: kill the human, and don't appreciate it if he helps you, even if his DoF is helping your Great Person generation (maybe? hope the AI in the expack will be nicer to Sweden because of the tactical uses of their UA).
Europe really is overrepresented in comparison to other geographical areas right now, but I'm ok with that so long as they continue to add interesting civs (like Polynesia) to the mix. I like the fact that the expansion is showing more civs from the early modern era, we don't see many 16th-18th century leaders in Civ, and Sweden is a great addition generally, as well as in having Gustav Adolphus.
I wonder how his AI will play....right now nearly all the AIs have the same logic: kill the human, and don't appreciate it if he helps you, even if his DoF is helping your Great Person generation (maybe? hope the AI in the expack will be nicer to Sweden because of the tactical uses of their UA).
Securion
Civ Veteran
I like everything about the Swedish Civ, except that the 10% bonus to great people seems very very weak... Make it 25% and it would be nice.
Also, will the AI even take the bonus into consideration? Will they be more inclined to be friends with Sweden? If not, its completely useless.
Also, will the AI even take the bonus into consideration? Will they be more inclined to be friends with Sweden? If not, its completely useless.
Baleur
Prince
I agree.
And yes i'm well aware of swedens expansion history, the point i was making is it was just one part of our history in which the geography of what is now finland was part of sweden.
I'm sure there are similar issues with the other civilizations UU or UA in the game, but as i'm swedish this is the only one i'm discussing at the moment. I love the UA but the name of it is ridiculous.
The +10% bonus is fine if it's allowed to stack . I'm just worried about the limit or the lack of limit,because if there's no limit in this bonus,such UA can become one of the most powerful UA in the game,in maps with more than 12 civs . But I guess that the influence of religion in diplomacy might avoid Sweden from getting too many DOF .
I don't think it's particularly hard to create a mod that change the name of this UA to something else . But I don't think that a name like "Neutrality via Cooperation" would be interesting,considering the fact that they only became Neutral in wars during the 19th century .
bonafide11
Worker
The addition of Sweden in itself is somewhat lol-inducing. I realize now they added them for the Renaissance scenario, but I'm still in somewhat disbelief that they were added with the amount of European civs already in the game, and well, with Sweden's lack of significant historical importance even in Europe outside of the 30 Years War.
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Moderator Action: This is an international forum, therefore please treat every nation with respect, so that we can have a friendly atmosphere at this board.
King_Course
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2010
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- 465
As a Dane, I can see Firaxis did the samme to the Swedes as they did to the Danes, when they gave us Norwegian Ski infantry. Or to be more precise, they did the same to the finnish as they did to the norwegians.
Regarding the Nobel Prize, yes. And it's so close but still so far away. What Alfred Nobel did, was invent dynamite. What that did for world progress is hard to put in words. Basically allowing the USA it's whole railroad infrastructure, being the viable reason behind the Panama canal, you name it. It has had profound impact on the world, and it came from Sweden.
Regarding the Nobel Prize, yes. And it's so close but still so far away. What Alfred Nobel did, was invent dynamite. What that did for world progress is hard to put in words. Basically allowing the USA it's whole railroad infrastructure, being the viable reason behind the Panama canal, you name it. It has had profound impact on the world, and it came from Sweden.
jjkrause84
King
Hittites would be quite cool. Sumer or Assyria, too.....plus the Zulus! Bring back Shaka!
The thing is, of course, that the game is primarily played by Westerners, and so Civs must have some familiarity with Western players. Personally, I hate playing civs I have never heard of, dispute the rationale for (Polynesia), or have never heard of the cities for. So, while you could have Champa or Majahapit (both should totally qualify), I don't think it would be quite as fun, or integrate as well (sadly).
Securion
Civ Veteran
Then please explain Songhai and Ethiopia to us?
I think Firaxis do the right thing about adding some more "minor" civs to the game. Even though its sad to see "real" civs not being in the game. Like Poland-Lithuania, Hungary, Ireland, Portugal, Italy, Novgorod, Prussia, etc and other civs that really had a huge influence on the world for a very long time.
Sadly those are European civs, yes. But it dosnt change the facts.
What i dont like though is "inventing" civilizations that have never really been a true civilization, or have been more of a tribe than a civ, or havent had much influence on the world in any way. Like "Zulu" or Songhai".
I mean if you wanna add tribes or small nations, you could add thousands of them.
you should probably read a bit about the Songhai and Ethiopia
.Both have been big, lasting empires. That we don't know them that much in the west is not an indicator of influence
.Same goes a bit for Swedish history, which has more highlights than just the 30 years war and the noble prize.
imperialman
Admiral
I hope you don't mean the Visby class corvette. A 640 tonne boat without a decent RADAR system and that can only carry 8 missiles isn't something I'd call a cruiser.
Securion
Civ Veteran
Not everyone likes to read about the world we live in...WTH am I reading?
Are you kidding me? No historical importance?
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 6,181
Not everyone likes to read about the world we live in...
While I agree Sweden is a great choice - weren't you the one who also just said Songhai and Ethiopia weren't? And had little historical importance/influence?
Kind of ironic you are mocking someone else about not reading then 
Securion
Civ Veteran
Songhai was a big empire, but it hardly had any lasting influence on the world at all. Ethiopia have never even been a big empire.While I agree Sweden is a great choice - weren't you the one who also just said Songhai and Ethiopia weren't? And had little historical importance/influence?
I have read a lot of history, and i truly love the subject, but i cant for the life of me think of any great Songhai or Ethiopian scientist, poet, musician, inventor, etc. I also cant think of anything those two nations have contributed in any other way to the world. I dont think you can either?
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
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If you want to go for literature and poetry look no further than the Kebra Nagast or look up Gebre Hanna's work. Thats just poetry - if you want architecture then look at the churches of lalibela or the mosque of djenne
Or if you want influence in wars - Without the diplomacy of Ethiopia, Italy would have been an ally in WW2 to the French and British.
Or what about where the Ethiopians have threatned to dam the nile various times forcing tribute and negotiations from the powers upstream.
Or what about when Ethiopia ran wide trading routes
Or what about the introduction of incense, coffee, forms of rubber to the world? Or what about their defeating the Portugueese, Italians, Ottomans, Arabs, and English?
Or the times when the Ethiopian Church negotiated with the Catholic Church and the Copts to control Christianity in Africa
Or even in modern times where it sends in army into Somalia and makes up a large amount of UN soldiers and controls a big share of the African Union's influence.
Securion
Civ Veteran
I dont really see how any of this would be enough to "earn" them a place as a civ in Civilization?
Just dont get me wrong, i like that they have been included, i just dont like it when they get compared to really great civilizations like Egypt, Inca, China, Rome, Greece, etc.
I think it comes down to what we put in the word "civilization".
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
- Joined
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How?
(And you know you did ask about poets, architecture, and accomplishments like 5 minutes before, so you realize I was responding to that right sir?)
They built an empire?
They controlled religion through a continent?
They were considered among the richest empires of the world respectively? (Both of them)
Let me flip the script?
How can you say Egypt, China, Rome, or Greece "earned" their positions anymore than Ethiopia did?
(And you know you did ask about poets, architecture, and accomplishments like 5 minutes before, so you realize I was responding to that right sir?)
They built an empire?
They controlled religion through a continent?
They were considered among the richest empires of the world respectively? (Both of them)
Let me flip the script?
How can you say Egypt, China, Rome, or Greece "earned" their positions anymore than Ethiopia did?
