This means that Portugal can be eliminated.
[Sword of Islam]: Byzantine Conquest
- Thread starter blizzrd
- Start date
This means that Portugal can be eliminated.
Turn 0 Micromanagement, we could really use paved roads!
Turn 1 Mongols appear and are destroyed. I make peace with Oman, because they'll soon collapse and I want their world map to find their last city, which was Murwab. We declare war on Ghorids. Mazar-e-Sharif is razed. We sent our troops down to Africa.
Turn 2 Oman collapses, Herat is razed.
Turn 3 Aswan is razed. Great Scientist is born in Tarsos. Firazkuh and Qandahar are razed with the total cost of 4 Heavy Lancers.
Turn 4 Black Death originates in Adrianapolis!
With our recently build foundries it is going to be a pain, I move garrisons away from cities. KoC founds Acre!
Bamiyan is captured. Para is razed; our piety is bound to decrease as we burn the African orthodox cities.
Turn 5 Plague everywhere, we draft one unit per turn from now on. Quetta is captured, we lose 4 HLs, out of which 2 with great odds.
Turn 6 Plague is still spreading. Ghorids collapse, Kabul is razed, but we lose 3 HLs.
Turn 7 Ghazna and Murwab are razed with the cost of 2HLs. Plague is still spreading.
Turn 8 We research Heavy Armor!
I drop science to 70% to get some cash for Heavy Cavalry upgrades.
Turn 9 Black Death is still spreading. Peshawar is razed, we lose one HL.
Turn 10 Meroe is razed. Our are preparing to strike against Sindh.
Notes and Suggestions
-Our piety is dropping, because we are razing orthodox cities. We should get it back up asap.
-Destroy Sindh, keep Thatta?
-Do NOT capture any cities with plague, since it has finally stopped spreading in our cities
-Raze rest of Africa, but don't capture Tungul, because there is no point to do it yet.
Turn 1 Mongols appear and are destroyed. I make peace with Oman, because they'll soon collapse and I want their world map to find their last city, which was Murwab. We declare war on Ghorids. Mazar-e-Sharif is razed. We sent our troops down to Africa.
Turn 2 Oman collapses, Herat is razed.
Turn 3 Aswan is razed. Great Scientist is born in Tarsos. Firazkuh and Qandahar are razed with the total cost of 4 Heavy Lancers.
Turn 4 Black Death originates in Adrianapolis!
With our recently build foundries it is going to be a pain, I move garrisons away from cities. KoC founds Acre! Bamiyan is captured. Para is razed; our piety is bound to decrease as we burn the African orthodox cities.Spoiler :
Turn 5 Plague everywhere, we draft one unit per turn from now on. Quetta is captured, we lose 4 HLs, out of which 2 with great odds.
Turn 6 Plague is still spreading. Ghorids collapse, Kabul is razed, but we lose 3 HLs.
Spoiler :
Turn 7 Ghazna and Murwab are razed with the cost of 2HLs. Plague is still spreading.
Turn 8 We research Heavy Armor!
I drop science to 70% to get some cash for Heavy Cavalry upgrades.Turn 9 Black Death is still spreading. Peshawar is razed, we lose one HL.
Turn 10 Meroe is razed. Our are preparing to strike against Sindh.
Notes and Suggestions
-Our piety is dropping, because we are razing orthodox cities. We should get it back up asap.
-Destroy Sindh, keep Thatta?
-Do NOT capture any cities with plague, since it has finally stopped spreading in our cities
-Raze rest of Africa, but don't capture Tungul, because there is no point to do it yet.
AnotherPacifist
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1. Declare war on Sindh.
2. Meet the Bahmani, trade for spice with sheep. Lahore razed. Bela razed. Minor Sindh stack destroyed north of Lahore.
3. Multan and Tharri razed. Somehow I can't raze indy Dharamsala (NE of Lahore) so I give it to Ajmer instead. Thatta captured. Sindh is willing to vassalize but we want to kill them to avoid Thatta flipping.
4. Quetta gets refugees. Byzantine revolt in Soba which allows me to raze it. Lots of barbs appear (Hamadan, Adrianopolis, Jerusalem). Uch razed. Lots of plundering in empty land.
5. Mansura razed (unfortunate since it's got a GG and a great scholar settled) and Sindh destroyed. GG born in capital, I send it to Ahvaz.
6. Declare war on Solanki/Ajmer/Malwa. Dharamsala recaptured (still can't raze so I give it to KoC).
7. Wheat exhausted near Cairo. Sthaneshwar razed. Major Solanki stack destroyed outside Vegh Kot (which was then razed).
8. Solanki loses its vassals. Dilli and Sangrur razed.
Peasant revolt in Bandar-e 'Abbas (who's this Abbas who hasn't even been born yet...we should rename this city as Hormizad, the name known to Alexander the Great):
9. Stone exhausted near Baghdad. Ajmer revassalizes to Solanki. Dwarka captured.
Aksum razed.
10. At the same turn the Timurids spawn, Khiveh flips to us (I disband it). Great artist born in Smyrna. Stack approaching Solanki capital with various improvements pillaged.
To do:
1. Couple caravans captured can go to KoC-owned Dharamsala for maximal gold.
2. Orthodoxy to be spread in Bamiyan and Thatta.
3. Pillage as many improvements outside our territory as possible but SPARE THE ROADS! (a lonely worker is trying to rebuild the road south of Cairo)
4. Tungul needs to be captured and then Africa will be done.
5. Keep stability solid at all times. We have plenty of great people to initiate another golden age or 2 if needed. (we actually will need either a great spy, great merchant or great priest for the next great person)
6. Timurids should be allowed to spread their forces around and then destroyed after 10 turns or so)
7. A couple round ships with troops are just north of Cyprus and a small stack is just north of Acre, ready to pounce. (Rodos only has an archer, could be mopped up quite easily.
8. The settler with an escort needs to be loaded onto the roundships and sent to Suqutra.
9. We have plenty of idle workers...consider deleting them.
10. Who are we going to keep alive until the Mughals show up??
11. I don't think we'll win religious victory even if we convert all of India.
12. Around 1380 there will be lots of Turkish horse archers around Iraq and eastern Anatolia. Please divert some troops to Sevasteia and environs.
13. Assassin heading to Armenia to steal Patronage in about 8 turns (we may need to devote a few turns of 100% espionage to be able to steal it).
2. Meet the Bahmani, trade for spice with sheep. Lahore razed. Bela razed. Minor Sindh stack destroyed north of Lahore.
3. Multan and Tharri razed. Somehow I can't raze indy Dharamsala (NE of Lahore) so I give it to Ajmer instead. Thatta captured. Sindh is willing to vassalize but we want to kill them to avoid Thatta flipping.
4. Quetta gets refugees. Byzantine revolt in Soba which allows me to raze it. Lots of barbs appear (Hamadan, Adrianopolis, Jerusalem). Uch razed. Lots of plundering in empty land.
5. Mansura razed (unfortunate since it's got a GG and a great scholar settled) and Sindh destroyed. GG born in capital, I send it to Ahvaz.
6. Declare war on Solanki/Ajmer/Malwa. Dharamsala recaptured (still can't raze so I give it to KoC).
7. Wheat exhausted near Cairo. Sthaneshwar razed. Major Solanki stack destroyed outside Vegh Kot (which was then razed).
8. Solanki loses its vassals. Dilli and Sangrur razed.
Peasant revolt in Bandar-e 'Abbas (who's this Abbas who hasn't even been born yet...we should rename this city as Hormizad, the name known to Alexander the Great):
9. Stone exhausted near Baghdad. Ajmer revassalizes to Solanki. Dwarka captured.
Aksum razed.
10. At the same turn the Timurids spawn, Khiveh flips to us (I disband it). Great artist born in Smyrna. Stack approaching Solanki capital with various improvements pillaged.
To do:
1. Couple caravans captured can go to KoC-owned Dharamsala for maximal gold.
2. Orthodoxy to be spread in Bamiyan and Thatta.
3. Pillage as many improvements outside our territory as possible but SPARE THE ROADS! (a lonely worker is trying to rebuild the road south of Cairo)
4. Tungul needs to be captured and then Africa will be done.
5. Keep stability solid at all times. We have plenty of great people to initiate another golden age or 2 if needed. (we actually will need either a great spy, great merchant or great priest for the next great person)
6. Timurids should be allowed to spread their forces around and then destroyed after 10 turns or so)
7. A couple round ships with troops are just north of Cyprus and a small stack is just north of Acre, ready to pounce. (Rodos only has an archer, could be mopped up quite easily.
8. The settler with an escort needs to be loaded onto the roundships and sent to Suqutra.
9. We have plenty of idle workers...consider deleting them.
10. Who are we going to keep alive until the Mughals show up??
11. I don't think we'll win religious victory even if we convert all of India.
12. Around 1380 there will be lots of Turkish horse archers around Iraq and eastern Anatolia. Please divert some troops to Sevasteia and environs.
13. Assassin heading to Armenia to steal Patronage in about 8 turns (we may need to devote a few turns of 100% espionage to be able to steal it).
blizzrd
Micromanager
I trust that we can all see how these two things are mutually exclusive. We will not be able to build a paved road network if we delete our workers!
Indeed. Jusos, did you raze the roads - because I sure as heck didn't.
We currently have 2x Great Engineer, 2x Great Scholar, 1x Great Artist and 1x Great Spy. 50+ turns to our next "manually" derived Great Person in our capital.
But Syncretism will give us a Great Artist (2 turns), Companies will give us a Great Merchant and Civic Architecture will give us a Great Engineer.
So our next Golden Age is using GE + GSc + GA. Then the following Golden Age is GSc + GSp + GA + GE/GM. We might save the GE for a wonder and use the GM from Companies for this one.
Don't forget we need an Orthodox Missionary too.
Suggest someone close to home would be best.
Agree, although there is no rush to steal Patronage and we might just keep our regular espionage production for a bit. Espionage production (either slowly or with some 100% action) is definitely preferable to using the Great Spy.
We should wait for as long as possible until stealing Patronage though, because it will seriously kill our Church/Monastery economy.
Yes, and since we are going to finish the tech tree, I recommend that we start researching the Shalimar Garden tech that also gives paved roads after we have stolen Patronage.
No, but I assume you both are aware of the barbs south of Egypt.Sounds like a plan!
Yeah, infiltration useless with our tech prizes.
AnotherPacifist
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Didn't Fatimids beat us to Companies already? I.e. no GM from Companies.
AnotherPacifist
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We pounded them too hard and too early and they wouldn't trade it for peace.I am just wondering why we didn't steal it from them before decimating them?
Theoretical question: if the Ayyubids and Mamluks never spawned, can we legitimately say we killed ALL civs?
In the case of the Ayyubids, I would say yes, since we technically killed their predecessors who were still in power.
Would there have been Mamluks if there were no Ayyubids?
blizzrd
Micromanager
I think they did..
I am just wondering why we didn't steal it from them before decimating them?
Because someone focused our espionage against the Seljuks instead of the Fatimids.
AnotherPacifist
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Well, maybe we shouldn't have declared war on the Fatimids so soon...my bad for suggesting it. We could have easily devoted enough espionage to learn it from them before crushing them.
If I remember right, our espionage in the late 1100's was nowhere as high as it was enough to steal anything from the Seljuks (I count maybe an extra 600 espionage points devoted to the Seljuks), and Companies costs way more than that after 1250 with our many cities.
The AI will almost never trade techs for peace once your empire is large enough (I've learned from domination games) simply because it's "cheaper" for them to give you cities, even if that means they'll collapse.
How much did Companies cost in 1277 to us after the 50% discount and how much did we have then against the Fatimids?
If I remember right, our espionage in the late 1100's was nowhere as high as it was enough to steal anything from the Seljuks (I count maybe an extra 600 espionage points devoted to the Seljuks), and Companies costs way more than that after 1250 with our many cities.
The AI will almost never trade techs for peace once your empire is large enough (I've learned from domination games) simply because it's "cheaper" for them to give you cities, even if that means they'll collapse.
How much did Companies cost in 1277 to us after the 50% discount and how much did we have then against the Fatimids?
I've started, but it is taking somewhat longer than expected. I would like to discuss/clarify one thing though: in which order do we pounce on the remaining civilizations? Indians civ should be conquered full throttle. Which cities do you think is best to keep? Then we'll have to wait for Mughals to spawn there. Should we redirect forces to Timurids, or just use the Indian forces on them after the Indian civs are finished?
I assume we should wait until the very last with founding the island cities. What about KoC? Should we conquer them as soon as possible, as it is a logistical hurdle to invade island, or save them until the very last, since we want to keep Cyprus?
Should we invade Armenia after stealing patronage, or save them for later?
I'll try to finish my turnset tomorrow night, apologies for the delay.
I assume we should wait until the very last with founding the island cities. What about KoC? Should we conquer them as soon as possible, as it is a logistical hurdle to invade island, or save them until the very last, since we want to keep Cyprus?
Should we invade Armenia after stealing patronage, or save them for later?
I'll try to finish my turnset tomorrow night, apologies for the delay.
AnotherPacifist
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I say we let the Timurids live and just continuously toy with them (i.e. any city they found we'll raze, cease fire for 10 turns, then start again), until the Bukhara Khanate shows up in force (the 15+ heavy horse archers that show up in 1500) and then we destroy them both.
Safavids cannot be allowed to live (they're too advanced).
We should also play Ak Koyunlu against the Zengids and Armenia. (I personally would let Ak Koyunlu capture some of Armenia's cities first, and then we can go in and raze some of them--"helping the Armenians" and then go back and destroy the Armenians).
Georgia is due to respawn any time soon.
But first of all, we need to defend against the upcoming turkish barb horse archers which will attack from time to time between 1380 and 1400.
And 1 more rule suggestion: NO VASSALS!
Safavids cannot be allowed to live (they're too advanced).
We should also play Ak Koyunlu against the Zengids and Armenia. (I personally would let Ak Koyunlu capture some of Armenia's cities first, and then we can go in and raze some of them--"helping the Armenians" and then go back and destroy the Armenians).
Georgia is due to respawn any time soon.
But first of all, we need to defend against the upcoming turkish barb horse archers which will attack from time to time between 1380 and 1400.
And 1 more rule suggestion: NO VASSALS!
blizzrd
Micromanager
OP updated
I apologize for the lack of pictures, I'm on a really slow connection at the moment.
Turn 1: Anhilwara captured and razed (no losses). Same deal with Somnath (though far less well-defended). Jaipur razed for one heavy lancer. Roundships moved into Masqat for protection while waiting for a missionary.
Turn 2: We captured Khambhat (no losses) and it has Rani Ki Vav, so we keep it. Orthodoxy in Thatta, micromanage Quetta to produce missionaries faster. Orthodoxy in Bamiyan. Masqat starts a missionary for Saqqara. Mashhad captued and razed without losses for us.
Turn 3: Chittor captured and razed for one heavy lancer and one light cavalry. Gwailor razed for one heavy lancer. Pillaging of India gives a really good income.
Turn 4: Lose a few workers close to the razed Mashhad to Turkomen raiders, who killed their escort. Syncretism discovered and we get a great artist, companies next (9 turns). Bundi razed.
Turn 5: Economy is good due to pillaging in India and Egypt, though stability is at 23 now. Ajmer captial of Ajayamery captured, though with heavy losses since it had a large stack of promoted defenders (3 light and 1 heavy cavalry lost). Kept, since it is in the Ajmer spawn zone. War declared on Bahmani.
Turn 6: Some more Turkomen shows up and even killed a light cavalry in transfer. Kingdom of Malwa collapses. Dhara Nagari captured and kept, as the city in Malwa spawn zone. Orthodoxy spread in Khambhat.
Turn 7: Zengid collapse. I figure we might as well do some free city razing to wekaen Ak Konyulu and raze City Name Missing, Rakka and Arbil. Missionary finished in Masqat and the colonization fleet sets sail to Saqqara. From Bahmani we capture and raze Manbai.
Turn 8: We are now at only 19 stability. Hosn Kayfa razed, so only Mosul remains of the former Zengid Emirate. I let it stay alive, as we need to keep it and it would be a drain and flip to Ak Konyulu. Ahmednagar razed. Orthodoxy in Ajayemru.
Turn 9: Stability at 18. Iraqi cities starts to decline, as Wasit in the previous turns and this turn Bagdad lose production in plots due to events. Bhojpal and Khandwa razed.
Turn 10: Stability is now 26. It is 1390, no sign of any Turkomens of significance. Captured Kolhapur, which looks like a nice choice for the Bahmani city to keep, so I don't raze it. Conquest of India is nearly finished.
To do:
Raze the last Bahmani city, Ahsenabad.
Spread orthodoxy to Kolhapur (missionary building in Quetta) and Dwarka (missionary there the next turn).
Head north to attack the Timurids.
Found Saqqara. Or, do we just want to place the settler and missionary there and found it the very last moment?
Decide when we want to attack the Kingdom of Cyrpus (inclouding their Indian city), Tungul, Armenia and Ak Konyulu. We have plenty of forces on each front for the task, except perhaps ARmenia, but there we can reinforce easily.
Continue pillaging to support the economy.
Use great people to start golden ages for stability when we desire.
Defend against the turkomen barbarians, I think we have adequate forces at every front.
Turn 1: Anhilwara captured and razed (no losses). Same deal with Somnath (though far less well-defended). Jaipur razed for one heavy lancer. Roundships moved into Masqat for protection while waiting for a missionary.
Turn 2: We captured Khambhat (no losses) and it has Rani Ki Vav, so we keep it. Orthodoxy in Thatta, micromanage Quetta to produce missionaries faster. Orthodoxy in Bamiyan. Masqat starts a missionary for Saqqara. Mashhad captued and razed without losses for us.
Turn 3: Chittor captured and razed for one heavy lancer and one light cavalry. Gwailor razed for one heavy lancer. Pillaging of India gives a really good income.
Turn 4: Lose a few workers close to the razed Mashhad to Turkomen raiders, who killed their escort. Syncretism discovered and we get a great artist, companies next (9 turns). Bundi razed.
Turn 5: Economy is good due to pillaging in India and Egypt, though stability is at 23 now. Ajmer captial of Ajayamery captured, though with heavy losses since it had a large stack of promoted defenders (3 light and 1 heavy cavalry lost). Kept, since it is in the Ajmer spawn zone. War declared on Bahmani.
Turn 6: Some more Turkomen shows up and even killed a light cavalry in transfer. Kingdom of Malwa collapses. Dhara Nagari captured and kept, as the city in Malwa spawn zone. Orthodoxy spread in Khambhat.
Turn 7: Zengid collapse. I figure we might as well do some free city razing to wekaen Ak Konyulu and raze City Name Missing, Rakka and Arbil. Missionary finished in Masqat and the colonization fleet sets sail to Saqqara. From Bahmani we capture and raze Manbai.
Turn 8: We are now at only 19 stability. Hosn Kayfa razed, so only Mosul remains of the former Zengid Emirate. I let it stay alive, as we need to keep it and it would be a drain and flip to Ak Konyulu. Ahmednagar razed. Orthodoxy in Ajayemru.
Turn 9: Stability at 18. Iraqi cities starts to decline, as Wasit in the previous turns and this turn Bagdad lose production in plots due to events. Bhojpal and Khandwa razed.
Turn 10: Stability is now 26. It is 1390, no sign of any Turkomens of significance. Captured Kolhapur, which looks like a nice choice for the Bahmani city to keep, so I don't raze it. Conquest of India is nearly finished.
To do:
Raze the last Bahmani city, Ahsenabad.
Spread orthodoxy to Kolhapur (missionary building in Quetta) and Dwarka (missionary there the next turn).
Head north to attack the Timurids.
Found Saqqara. Or, do we just want to place the settler and missionary there and found it the very last moment?
Decide when we want to attack the Kingdom of Cyrpus (inclouding their Indian city), Tungul, Armenia and Ak Konyulu. We have plenty of forces on each front for the task, except perhaps ARmenia, but there we can reinforce easily.
Continue pillaging to support the economy.
Use great people to start golden ages for stability when we desire.
Defend against the turkomen barbarians, I think we have adequate forces at every front.
AnotherPacifist
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You mean Suqutra? (AFAIK Saqqara is in Egypt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saqqara)
And yes, it should be founded in 1550 or so. (Actually, an indy city will spawn there if there are no units around, similar to NW of Oman, fodder for the Portuguese to conquer)
AnotherPacifist
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I'm telling you, those Turkomen Raiders are going to show up some time soon near Sevasteia.
Oh yes, Suqutra. I think we are protected against the Turkomen, there are forces near Sevasteia, as well as along other frontiers.
I was unsure about the tech path; I started companies even though the Fatimid had beat us to it. What else do we want to prioritize, provided we want to delay patronage?
I was unsure about the tech path; I started companies even though the Fatimid had beat us to it. What else do we want to prioritize, provided we want to delay patronage?
AnotherPacifist
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Khambhat needs to build 1 turn of culture to avoid further starvation. However, more Indian land could mean lower stability...
Sana'a is a little too weakly defended (a barb camel could very well capture it).
The copper SW of Jerusalem needs to be mined again. Esfahan has several tiles without improvements! :shock:
Kaiseria needs to work the farm to grow one more pop. Amastris needs to work more water tiles. Ankyra is missing one commerce from not working a rivered windmill (rather than working a unrivered one).
Movable type (1 more commerce from towns) would be best next after companies (we don't really need the House of Wisdom as much as more gold to buffer the imminent loss of the Spiral Minaret).
Building 1 or 2 more debtor's prisons might help our stability by decreasing war weariness (although next turn we can eliminate the Bahmanis).
Jerusalem needs more economy buildings.
I would go for flintlock after that (musketmen promoted against archers are pretty strong against city walls, if we want to build something other than light cavalry). We should have naval ordnance ready in time for the Portuguese. (never built a frigate in this mod)
Sana'a is a little too weakly defended (a barb camel could very well capture it).
The copper SW of Jerusalem needs to be mined again. Esfahan has several tiles without improvements! :shock:
Kaiseria needs to work the farm to grow one more pop. Amastris needs to work more water tiles. Ankyra is missing one commerce from not working a rivered windmill (rather than working a unrivered one).
Movable type (1 more commerce from towns) would be best next after companies (we don't really need the House of Wisdom as much as more gold to buffer the imminent loss of the Spiral Minaret).
Building 1 or 2 more debtor's prisons might help our stability by decreasing war weariness (although next turn we can eliminate the Bahmanis).
Jerusalem needs more economy buildings.
I would go for flintlock after that (musketmen promoted against archers are pretty strong against city walls, if we want to build something other than light cavalry). We should have naval ordnance ready in time for the Portuguese. (never built a frigate in this mod)
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