TACTICAL BATTLES is what CIV really needs

[Dark_Magician]

Exactly, as topic says.

"Heroes"-like, probably on separate screen.
at least since pharaos different regiments were used in battles;
archers+spearmen+chariots
phalangs+throwing spear units and so on

so there's no doubt there's a tactical stage in combat. No need to go into details, how exactly this should be done, though.

I wonder if anyone good at this could try making a MOD with this feature
Civ has GREAT advantage no sofisticated graphics has to be made to futher improve it.

Another small point (attention moderators) there are every knd of wierd-looking mods.. someone has to review them and post which are worthwhile. Usually some 2/3 of all mods are crap anyway. 90% betas and, frankly, over 50% "retail"

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Dark_Magician
Another small point (attention moderators) there are every knd of wierd-looking mods.. someone has to review them and post which are worthwhile. Usually some 2/3 of all mods are crap anyway. 90% betas and, frankly, over 50% "retail"

What's a "retail" mod? (Serious question, not being sarcastic.)

Some of the mods are rated. There is a "rating" column when you're on the mod forum. If you click on the column header (where it says 'rating') it will organize the threads in reverse rated order (best ratings first).

I disagree about the mods being 90% beta. Beta is an untested but generally funtional non-release state of development. "Public Beta" is a contradiction in terms, by the way. The vast majority of the mods you can get here have been tested and function just as planned and advertised.

I disagree about the 2/3 crap too but that's your opinion and you've got as much right to that as I have to mine.

 

[cat98]

Stares at the words 'tactical' 'battles' 'civ' and 'heros'

 

[napoleon526]

Has anyone here played the game "Shogun: Total War"? I love it. It's the only game i've found that combines strategic campaigning and individual battles.

 

[Klasanov]

Why do we need this? It's not too hard to combine arms like that yourself

 

[Dell19]

We all know which civ type game used multiple units in armies...I have always felt that when you create an archer unit, its actually mixed army with archers as its focus. Same with the other units.

Also I have played Shogun total war and its quite good...Although it is alot different to Civ 3.

 

[cephyn]

Shogun rocks <looks over at the CD lying on the desk>

Tactical battles, why thats a great idea! Of course, I've been wishing Civ would incorporate this since the mid-90's, back when I became horrendously addicted to Master of Magic.

Still waiting for MoM2...3 failed attempts to get that game out, and its killed every time...<sigh>

I'll just have to wait for the imposter, Age of Wonders 2.

 

[Cyc]

mmm... yes. shogun cd is on my desk also. great game. now those are tactical battles. is dark_magician suggesting a new civ with this kind of battle field layout?

 

[smallstepforman]

Civ:Call to Power (Activision) had the concept of battles taking place on a second screen. The battles were graphical, but totally scripted. Entertaining the first few times, but for major campaigns it got repetitive and distracting, so most users switched it off.

Animated battles in Civ3 can get tiresome after a while (major campaigns).

 

[korusus]

I don't know that I would like that. That would take away from the Turn-based strategy and add to the Real-time strategy. While I agree Total War is a really cool game (which is in my computer drive at the moment) I don't think it's battle system would work in Civ.

It would be cool to see it on screen like that with an environment and stuff. But it would have to be random like in the normal battles. I would like to watch the battle unfold like that, but not have direct control over it.

Anyone ever played Kessen/Kessen II ???

 

[Fr8monkey]

The real time battles would be an interesting idea; But do you have any idea how long that would drag out the game? You thought it was slow now......

 

[Zouave]

See the "Gap Between Cavalry and Tanks" thread. It touches on a lot of these issues. So I won't repeat them here.

Suffice it to say, land combat in Civ III is disappointing at best, and naval warfare is worse.


As for the lousy mod that came with the game, I wouldn't even call it a "beta" it is so bad. More like an "omega"!

 

[Dark_Magician]

I thought it is quite logical that no real-time elements are suitable for Civ.

On the simple ground that real-time battles would require whole new game
1. technically those styles are different, difficult to combine and realtime I believe is harder to make (theres unit animations made already in civ, suitable for turn-based style)

2. Consumers (fans), their mentality and expectations are different, why do something that wouldnät work?

so as I said tacticle battle could be like in heroes that is Heroes of Might and Magic. Just forget childish look of that particular game it doesn't matter, technically it works perfectly.

I absolutely agree, that there's a problem with battles in Civ. The solution doesn't have to be tactical battles , even though it seems that tactical battles ould be fun to play (and bring it closer to wargame, at least i could perceive Civ with such feature)

The creators of the game obviously perceived this too, why otherwise there would be so called "armies"?? It seems to me an attempt to tacle this, which has not been complete.

 

[Dark_Magician]

heroes is an example. Some time ago there was a game "imperialism", first one (there was imperialism II later) was obviously heavily affected by civilization (it even looked similarly) but there were tactical battles which felt very well and worked very well.

download it (demo) http://www.gamesdomain.com/demos/demo/153.html
should work, i think

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by napoleon526
Has anyone here played the game "Shogun: Total War"? I love it. It's the only game i've found that combines strategic campaigning and individual battles.

That game is based on "The Art of War" - By SunTzu, and I think that FIRAXIS should read that book.

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by Zouave
As for the lousy mod that came with the game, I wouldn't even call it a "beta" it is so bad. More like an "omega"!

Hmm... an alpha version is a less complete game then Beta... so what would that make an Omega version?

 

[cephyn]

Originally posted by Fr8monkey
The real time battles would be an interesting idea; But do you have any idea how long that would drag out the game? You thought it was slow now......

Its not as bad as it sounds, if they implemented it like Master of Magic, the bastard child of Civ.

You can control the troops yourself, or put it on auto -- change the options for "always auto" and there you go.

The only difference is that in MoM, stacks of troops all fought at once, not 1v1 like in Civ.