Tactical brilliance vs More units wins

[lz14]

Does tactical brilliance work in the game? I don't mean stradegic, but tactic. If you are smart, you can win a war in the game, but can you win a BATTLE, especially on the offence. like in Pearl harbor, few units destroy many. My impression is when you are attacking, either good luck or just throw a lot of units, I might take enemy cities, but I can never finish their troops SMARTLY. Does anyone has some good tactics?

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by lz14
Does tactical brilliance work in the game?

Yes and No!

Yes, using the terrain right, using troops right, using bombardment you CAN achieve astonishing wins.


No, because the RNG will let the AI win a 0.4% combat 5 times in a row just when you got those Cavalry through the enemy lines..... .....

 

[lz14]

Can you make an example?

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

example: you use cannons to weaken enemy defenders, then blitz through their lines with Cavalry to catch their re-supply in the open, not the moiuntains that happen to be your border with them.


You figure out which roads to cut so that you will have the enemy fast units end their turn just before reaching you town so you cna bombard them and pick them off.

You bait the enemy with conscripts or workers, then mop them up using the superior mobility of fast units.

 

[lz14]

Great. But my enermy always come with a huge flock from everywhere, any unit break through their lines will be swamped the next turn, really don't know what to do.

 

[Globetrotter]

Try and put units on several fronts. The AI is most likely to throw the stack where it feels there is greater danger, and send just some units on other fronts. Prepare to meet the strong stack with good defensive units, while your quick offensive units preform breakthroughs on the remaining front. Soon enough, this high stack you mention will be reduced, as the AI will remove troops from it to reinforce the other fronts. Then you can hurt him real bad (just had a similar scenario this morning, @ 2 a.m.) couldn't get of before i finished...

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by lz14
Great. But my enermy always come with a huge flock from everywhere, any unit break through their lines will be swamped the next turn, really don't know what to do.

\

You are indicating that the AI has huge numbers and coming from more than one direction. This is the perfect opportunity for "Fancy Tactics" on defense. Use bombardment to damage the invaders, fast units to finish them off, and strong defenders to protect the fast units that can't make it back to the safety of your Walls or Fortifications.

Once you have exhausted the AI advance, prepare for your counterattack.

 

[Chieftess]

This is more of a strategy question. moved.

 

[Charis]

Here's an example I used recently. I'm playing Koreans, ancient era, on deity and I said "no" to tribute

I have two natural lines of defense formed by the terrain. Below
M is mountain, P is plains. We're on the right, attackers coming inbound from the left...

PPMPPM
PPPPMP
PPMPPM
PPMPPP

I have a spear and catapult on each of the frontline (left) mountains, and the AI is coming with warriors, archers, and swords. If there's just a few, I have an archer in the plains "hole" between the mountains, with a spear and cat. As more units stream in than I can handle, half my units back up and the spear/cat on the hills stay up. The AI comes through the gap. Several are hit by cats, and a few retreat, a few are hurt and move up. On the backline I stay on the mountains. An archer up ther might attack a stack of two warriors below, but killing just one, you remain on the mountain. Same on the front line, I don't come down. Again, some retreat. Finally my attacking units outnumber theirs and I can attack even if it pulls me down off the hill. This all worked because they were determined to go after my poorly defended city just to the right of this killing zone. They would attack units in the open but not go after the mountain units. If they did, or if it was a human player, they would boot my spear off there, sure losing 1-3 units, but capturing a catapult or two, then fortify to heal, and move forward and crush me.

Of course, about ten turns from the start of all this, a second wave comes bigger than the first, and my units are almost depleted. But because I gave him such a beating (and razed a city on turn 0 which set off the whole war), I demand peace and the AI gives several techs and some gold.

Charis

 

[sabo]

Originally posted by lz14
Great. But my enermy always come with a huge flock from everywhere, any unit break through their lines will be swamped the next turn, really don't know what to do.

When they got stack(s) of doom (plural) coming at me my favorite tactic is to place a stack of arty 25 -50 at some strategic point, with defenders of course by that strategic point they want i.e. like a city and then bombard all the roads and rr around me so they can't get to my arty in one turn, then when they come at me and end their turn becuase they couldn't reach me or said strategic point, I just bombard the crap out of them, even if you don't kill any they will retreat to heal, this tactic has saved my ass many times.

Although I remember one game where korea seemed to have a never ending supply of modern armor, but anyway this will work.

Check out the strategy and tips section of this site, that's where I learned alot of this, and how the AI behaves.

Good Luck

 

[kmad]

I make about 160 cavalry before I go to war with anyone

 

[Globetrotter]

Originally posted by kmad
I make about 160 cavalry before I go to war with anyone

On higher levels, by the time you get the 160 cavalry, the AI might be pumping tanks

Charis and Sabo mentionned good tactics for defense in case being attacked. Using wisely these tactics, even 160 cavalry can be brought down...

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by lz14
Does anyone has some good tactics?

Have you checked out the tactic on this thread yet? With a small task force, you can pretty much destroy the AI of at least 10 times more powerful than you. Actually, it doesn't really matter if they are 10 times or 20 times stronger, you will win because you are invincible. Of course, I rarely use that tactic because it would be so unfair for the AIs and I do not want a hollow victory.

 

[Globetrotter]

Moonsinger: i had read your thread some time back, and found your idea brillant.
However, t'is not very much feasible in ancient or middle ages
And that's where you might have to face the AI, mano a mano!

 

[Charis]

Have you checked out the tactic on this thread yet?

Shameless, Moongsinger, shameless!!
(Nevertheless, a powerful technique and good article )

Getting back to the original topic, can you make use of tactics to pull off an impressive *offensive* win? The answer remains yes, but it's harder, or more situational. Campaigns, as opposed to full-fledged sustained wars, are ALL about LOCAL advantage. If the AI has a stack of doom able to kill you ten times over, but they're 20 turns away, you can still clean their clock. Strategy and tactics can help create, or take advantage of such a situation. Diversion uses a tiny force to 'pull away' a very large opponent force and to remove power from the local arena that is the real target. Things like bombarding out several squares of a road through the mountains, fortifying there with a few of your best defensive units, can help reduce the AI's local power.

Once you've achieved decisive results on the skirmish level, end the conflict, take your tribute, and keep an eye out for the next opportunity. Use these "Limited" wars for things like: grabbing their only iron/rubber/oil source, taking a chokepoint city, capturing a city with a key wonder, or taking an island.

In that same game with the mountain-based defensive war I discussed above, later I had a series of very short wars to kick *much* stronger AI out of my home turf. By that I mean an offense composed of one archer, one sword, two spears, and six catapults, versus a nation with a few dozen Riders, many swords, pikes, two spears and one archer.



The thing was, their home area was about a 15 turn ride away from my core, and while those piddly units represented my entire field army, all he had *locally* was the two spears and one archer. Not only did I kick them out of my core but I got half a tech as he paid me for peace (50% discount).

If you want an example more like pearl harbor and less like AI-cheese... you might try something like a marine invasion of a so-so defended city in the desert that sat on a nation's ONLY oil supply. The marines took the city (with carrier-based bombardment, vs infantry) and then I landed an infantry ARMY in the city for defense, plus a few others. They then sent about two dozen cav and another dozen rifles and longbows at the city, but could not take it. Their back was broken, they would never regain oil or make a tank, and it took very few units on my part. Lack of oil also meant that their naval position of dominace dried up and disappeared.

Charis

 

[hbdragon88]

Originally posted by Moonsinger

Have you checked out the tactic on this thread yet? With a small task force, you can pretty much destroy the AI of at least 10 times more powerful than you. Actually, it doesn't really matter if they are 10 times or 20 times stronger, you will win because you are invincible. Of course, I rarely use that tactic because it would be so unfair for the AIs and I do not want a hollow victory.

Hollow victory. Unfair. *Ahem*

*cough*nukingover400tilesofgrasslandandplansandhavingnightmaresofcitizensbeggingnottobenukedandusingitingotm14andgotm13(right?)andthehalloffame*cough*

Good tactics? For me, a good tactic is to overpower them. I knew that the Zulus only had infantry and I just researched motorized transportion. I spend tons of turns and build many tanks. I take eight to nine tanks to the capital and raze it, and to six to seven other cities...

In one game I thought I was brillant. I churned out hundreds of modern armor and took over a thirty American and Chinese fringe cities, sweeping through. Unfotunantly the game started to freeze up.

 

[Aggie]

@hpdragon88: I know you are not 100% serious in your critisism, but I think Moonsinger's tactic is GREAT. If you would use a modern armor rush only (which comes very late in the game btw) you are about to have big losses in between turns. Moonsinger solves this by getting the attacking units immedialtely at the borders of the enemy's cities...

 

[lz14]

Thanks everyone. civ3 forumn is the one you get hips of replies, like instantly. And Charis is the one really answering what I was asking.
I do have stacks of enermies, but wasn't really dooms. I can beat them, it's just that I don't beat them very smartly, just throwing more units, or they come and die themselves.
When on the attack, their troops just scatted everywhere, the map is huge, I don't know where they are. And the ALs have ROPs with everybody, so it takes me ages to chase ONE longbow man, then I chase the next... Sometimes I have to chase those explorers, that's really a nightmare.
Not sure about the 'lure away' stradegy, coz I really hate them come to pillage things around(like what I do to them). But it looks like they only look for units, not pillage.
And moonsinger's tactic seems only works if the enemy is close. Mine's always far away, need to throw a lot of ROPs to get those attilliries rolling.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Charis
Shameless, Moongsinger, shameless!!

Guilty as charge!

Originally posted by hbdragon88
*cough*nukingover400tilesofgrasslandandplansandhavingnightmaresofcitizensbeggingnottobenukedandusingitingotm14andgotm13(right?)andthehalloffame*cough*

Guilty, but provisionally, everything I have done, I have done it for the good and happiness of my citizens.

Originally posted by lz14
And moonsinger's tactic seems only works if the enemy is close. Mine's always far away, need to throw a lot of ROPs to get those attilliries rolling.

Well, that isn't really a problem. Since your enemy is far away, they can't hurt you anyway; therefore, you have all the time in the world to eliminate your next door neighbor first (unless you don't want to be remembered as a warmonger).

 

[Hellfire]

In case you feel your production is weak or your units are not advanced enough, often you can get the AI to back off by bombarding as many units as you can and just push them back. then rush units for your defense.

I find the AI doesn't like to attack with damaged units and they really put off creating battlefield medicine until late in the game.

This in fact caused me problems(!!!) lately when I was trying to finish off a SoD. I would bombard them and attack with superior blitz units. However I didn't have enough units in range (stupid inferior civs with their lack of RRs ) and I didn't finish all the units off. When I got to the next turn, the SoD had scattered like little mice and it was a pain trying to find them again and pick them off!!!!!