Indiansmoke
Deity
They have just teched IW so I think our only chance of getting Oracle is teching masonry next so that Ras can hook marble.
Tactics and strategy...follow the action
- Thread starter Indiansmoke
- Start date
Means they are 2 turns ahead tech wise. Not too concerned, as I think we can easily make that up. I have a city location 4E which will be a nice cottage farm. Sending that additional dog will further hamper Rome. He is size 2 w/1 worker and no food worked vs size 2 next turn with 2 workers 2 6-food tiles worked for me. I also have 7 woods to chop. I can have my third city up not long after he has his second.
Munro
Deity
Masonry next seems sensible.
India has sent another archer out to my fortifying, healing warrior. Not sure if he is just guarding the fast worker, or getting ready to attack my warrior. (The fast worker could finish a road next turn allowing him to clean up with the warrrior I'm guessing he still has in his capital in case the archer attack fails).
Anyone know what odds he has with the archer? Or is it worth sacrificing the warrior by moving 1E, just to see what is in the fog there?
India has sent another archer out to my fortifying, healing warrior. Not sure if he is just guarding the fast worker, or getting ready to attack my warrior. (The fast worker could finish a road next turn allowing him to clean up with the warrrior I'm guessing he still has in his capital in case the archer attack fails).
Anyone know what odds he has with the archer? Or is it worth sacrificing the warrior by moving 1E, just to see what is in the fog there?
Spoiler :
Indiansmoke
Deity
First thing I notice from the screen is that India has iron (notice the grassland hill with 2 hammers?).
Your warrior is 1.7 health, with forest, hill, cover and combat bonus that is 110% so 3.57 vs 3 that is the archer. That is if you move to other hill...he will lose a warrior (as he will hit with warrior first) and will kill you with the archer but you wil reveal 2 tiles
If you stay in place warrior will go to 1.8 health with 10% fortify so that is 3.96 vs 3..much beter odds, so propably he will not try to kill it and will wait for an axe.
So your call...my only concern is horse..if there is horse in that fog that has not been scouted that would be something that we need to know, but I guess Dan's scout can come back to scout that...
Your warrior is 1.7 health, with forest, hill, cover and combat bonus that is 110% so 3.57 vs 3 that is the archer. That is if you move to other hill...he will lose a warrior (as he will hit with warrior first) and will kill you with the archer but you wil reveal 2 tiles
If you stay in place warrior will go to 1.8 health with 10% fortify so that is 3.96 vs 3..much beter odds, so propably he will not try to kill it and will wait for an axe.
So your call...my only concern is horse..if there is horse in that fog that has not been scouted that would be something that we need to know, but I guess Dan's scout can come back to scout that...
Perhaps the warrior is better than 1,7/2 and has more than 85/100 HP. If you stand at this place (you have at least 90/100 HP) you can lost to 70/100 HP and have a 50% chance against the archer. If you lost more HP your chance decrease rapidly.
Was wondering if it is safe enough to go settler next and send him with out an escort. It should be unless someone does actually have horse. dog will be sent out in 2 turns. It will be 7 turns until I can get my scout over to India to look for horses.
Indiansmoke
Deity
I think it should be safe, but you need to have roads and an archer and a dog in between cities just in case
Don't forget that jags are out now!
Indiansmoke
Deity
Update after IW.
In the south India has iron in capital BFC, which means we will be seing praetorians as it will switch resources with rome.
Zulu have iron just outside capital
and Natives have iron a bit further, which could be claimed by third city.
In the north Aztec have iron which they will propably gift to babylon. Egypt will propably try to grab that horse and start spamming war chariots.
persia has iron in capital, maya in capital as well (a monster production capital) and mali will have to claim iron in a somewhat risky position towards the enemy.
In the south India has iron in capital BFC, which means we will be seing praetorians as it will switch resources with rome.
Zulu have iron just outside capital
and Natives have iron a bit further, which could be claimed by third city.
In the north Aztec have iron which they will propably gift to babylon. Egypt will propably try to grab that horse and start spamming war chariots.
persia has iron in capital, maya in capital as well (a monster production capital) and mali will have to claim iron in a somewhat risky position towards the enemy.
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Indiansmoke
Deity
We need to decide on wonders.
Persia or mali will build Oracle after marble is improved..but someone else has to make Stonehedge...that can be natives IMO after settler sive they have plenty of chops.
Persia or mali will build Oracle after marble is improved..but someone else has to make Stonehedge...that can be natives IMO after settler sive they have plenty of chops.
I can do Henge, though India is probably already chopping it. Worse thing is I use money to upgrade my warrior.
Re: Jags. It would be 11 turns for a Jag to reach my 2nd city and I can't imagine Aztec would go after someone on the bottom half of the board who has a no resource axe while Babs has skirm in his land. Regardless, if you want me to do Henge next it probably means keeping that dog at home because otherwise I have to make archer and another dog before starting Henge which would obviously be too late.
Unless I could pillage that food it is rather pointless to send out IMHO. I would likely not get to his metal and if I just sit on a forest or hill he kills me 2v1 with axe/preats.
Re: Jags. It would be 11 turns for a Jag to reach my 2nd city and I can't imagine Aztec would go after someone on the bottom half of the board who has a no resource axe while Babs has skirm in his land. Regardless, if you want me to do Henge next it probably means keeping that dog at home because otherwise I have to make archer and another dog before starting Henge which would obviously be too late.
Unless I could pillage that food it is rather pointless to send out IMHO. I would likely not get to his metal and if I just sit on a forest or hill he kills me 2v1 with axe/preats.
Indiansmoke
Deity
It is pointless sending the dog now IMO, they will kill it even with archers, typically lose 1 archer kill with second. So yes I would recommend you chop henge. Dought India is making it before they do second city and they haven't got many chops left.
Indiansmoke
Deity
Next turn after next we will have masonry. So Ras next turn use both workers to road the marble..then the turn after that you must wait and play last in our team so that we discover masonry and you can start improving marble.
It will be 3 turn to improve marble (with 1 spare worker turn) it should be 5 turn to discover priesthood after that (we should go meditation)...so after improving marble you can send workers forests and chops will time just fine.
Also note that in quick speed chopping a forest is 3 turns and improving mine is 3 turns...but directly mining on a forest hill is 5 turns (1 turn saved). So if not on a hurry for chop it is usually better to mine directly...same for forest cottages.
It will be 3 turn to improve marble (with 1 spare worker turn) it should be 5 turn to discover priesthood after that (we should go meditation)...so after improving marble you can send workers forests and chops will time just fine.
Also note that in quick speed chopping a forest is 3 turns and improving mine is 3 turns...but directly mining on a forest hill is 5 turns (1 turn saved). So if not on a hurry for chop it is usually better to mine directly...same for forest cottages.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Sounds like a plan... will see if I have any question when I log in... if I got it right, I postpone a settler until after oracle, spamming SKs in the meantime (maybe a rax? prolly not...).
Nice tip about chops/mines... quick is weird
For next city, here are my suggestions:
Western site is my favorite: iron in first ring, hill defense, floodplain and can borrow the pig from the capital, in direction of the ennemy.
Then there is eastern ivory/horse/pig/corn... Gives happiness, and potentially phants. But maybe this one can wait...
Southern site: my least favorite, provides horse but lacks defense, also gives gold.
Thoughts? I am open to everything...
About the SKs: do I stack them next to Babylon, or to I try to disrupt workers? Later strategy seems more risky seeing how babylon is spamming archers.
Nice tip about chops/mines... quick is weird
For next city, here are my suggestions:
Spoiler :
Western site is my favorite: iron in first ring, hill defense, floodplain and can borrow the pig from the capital, in direction of the ennemy.
Then there is eastern ivory/horse/pig/corn... Gives happiness, and potentially phants. But maybe this one can wait...
Southern site: my least favorite, provides horse but lacks defense, also gives gold.
Thoughts? I am open to everything...
About the SKs: do I stack them next to Babylon, or to I try to disrupt workers? Later strategy seems more risky seeing how babylon is spamming archers.
Indiansmoke
Deity
This is a good question..maybe it is better I make the Oracle that I already have city...it will propably be better if you spam skirm and make settler.
We will have priesthood in about 7 turns so by that tiome I will already have 5-6 immortals and I can start Oracle.
Idially i would want you to gift me a skirmisher for protection while I send immortals to babylon and chop Oracle.
Now regarding the city spot you posted I think it is the one you have to go for as it is the only iron. So next turn road on the pig (were your worker is now) and finish the chop (you can improve marble after).
You will need to make another 2-3 skirmishers before settler and cover the settling spot and the forest hill next to it...we don't want enemy units sitting there, especially double forest jags.
We will have priesthood in about 7 turns so by that tiome I will already have 5-6 immortals and I can start Oracle.
Idially i would want you to gift me a skirmisher for protection while I send immortals to babylon and chop Oracle.
Now regarding the city spot you posted I think it is the one you have to go for as it is the only iron. So next turn road on the pig (were your worker is now) and finish the chop (you can improve marble after).
You will need to make another 2-3 skirmishers before settler and cover the settling spot and the forest hill next to it...we don't want enemy units sitting there, especially double forest jags.
Munro
Deity
I get my first settler next turn. Where to put city #2?
Someone suggested 3S1W of my capital, but 3S may be better, since by not settling on the forest, we get 1 extra chop in the initial city cross and can found it 1 turn faster.
My culture borders pop in 2 turns so settling adjacent to the iron is not needed anyway.
Also, until we get our first religion and spread it my way (unless Zulu founds it) my happy caps are 5 tiles in the capital and 4 tiles in secondary cities.. not very high. So I won't be able to work that extra grasslands hill 1S of the Iron until I have religion anyway.
So my current thinking is:
- settle 3S of the capital and work 2x corn, iron, grasslands hill and pump workers and settlers at size 4 (while capital works corn, horses, 3x grasslands hill and pumps axe / impi pairs for harrassing India).
- city #3 goes 3S of city #2 between pigs and copper, to become a second military city, working pigs, copper, 2 grasslands hill
When religion arrives, the border pops will add another 4 grassland / plains hills / marble - so those higher happy caps still won't be short of production tiles to work.
Thoughts?
Also - who do we want to found Hinduism? (I assume we go for that next on the way to Priesthood, assuming that the other team will take the cheaper Budhism?) We can choose who gets it of course by having everyone else switch to another tech on the last turn (e.g. HBR?)
If we do get the Oracle, I assume MC will be our free tech (for Machinery) due to the high beaker cost, while we beeline Construction?
Spoiler :
Someone suggested 3S1W of my capital, but 3S may be better, since by not settling on the forest, we get 1 extra chop in the initial city cross and can found it 1 turn faster.
My culture borders pop in 2 turns so settling adjacent to the iron is not needed anyway.
Also, until we get our first religion and spread it my way (unless Zulu founds it) my happy caps are 5 tiles in the capital and 4 tiles in secondary cities.. not very high. So I won't be able to work that extra grasslands hill 1S of the Iron until I have religion anyway.
So my current thinking is:
- settle 3S of the capital and work 2x corn, iron, grasslands hill and pump workers and settlers at size 4 (while capital works corn, horses, 3x grasslands hill and pumps axe / impi pairs for harrassing India).
- city #3 goes 3S of city #2 between pigs and copper, to become a second military city, working pigs, copper, 2 grasslands hill
When religion arrives, the border pops will add another 4 grassland / plains hills / marble - so those higher happy caps still won't be short of production tiles to work.
Thoughts?
Also - who do we want to found Hinduism? (I assume we go for that next on the way to Priesthood, assuming that the other team will take the cheaper Budhism?) We can choose who gets it of course by having everyone else switch to another tech on the last turn (e.g. HBR?)
If we do get the Oracle, I assume MC will be our free tech (for Machinery) due to the high beaker cost, while we beeline Construction?
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Both your sites are good... as your capital pops in two turns
As for the Oracle, i would have thought we take something cheaper (HBR), as I think we need to focus on short term... "time to unit", for instance time to HA, time to cats, time to phants, seems more important to shorten than maximizing free beakers. Maybe I am wrong though
As for the Oracle, i would have thought we take something cheaper (HBR), as I think we need to focus on short term... "time to unit", for instance time to HA, time to cats, time to phants, seems more important to shorten than maximizing free beakers. Maybe I am wrong though
Indiansmoke
Deity
I suggested the 3S1W Munro. My main concern was that at 3S 1 chariot can threaten 2 cities from same spot (1E of your non irrigated corn)...of course you can say that I did the same planting my second city, but I feel mine was forced if I wanted to both share the food and improve horse straight away...while your choice is not forced.
Regarding religion...I suggest we go meditation since it is cheaper and we will get 15% bonus from other team knowing the tech. It will be 2 turns less than polytheism, which are crusial at getting Oracle. Also we cannot chose who gets it by switching tech, every tech you discover is a team tech not personnal. However we could theoretically get it in the second city with highest pop if there is one..for example if we got it this turn it should be on my second city as I am the only one with a second city.
From Oracle normally we would want Monarchy...metal casting is more expensive but useless for a long time, while monarchy is crusial for hereditary rule.
Regarding religion...I suggest we go meditation since it is cheaper and we will get 15% bonus from other team knowing the tech. It will be 2 turns less than polytheism, which are crusial at getting Oracle. Also we cannot chose who gets it by switching tech, every tech you discover is a team tech not personnal. However we could theoretically get it in the second city with highest pop if there is one..for example if we got it this turn it should be on my second city as I am the only one with a second city.
From Oracle normally we would want Monarchy...metal casting is more expensive but useless for a long time, while monarchy is crusial for hereditary rule.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Hum both points make sense (defensive problems of the site 3n and monarchy from Oracle)... production bonus from monarchy (via increased slavery rate) should outweight other advantages.
Indiansmoke
Deity
This is Persia land after settling second city. It is not the best city spot ever but will get me horse asap and will share the improved second corn with capital to grow quickly.
BTW Ras can you please keep your scout fortified where it is now, so that I can see if something is comming from the north since my second city is and wil remain empty for a while?
BTW Ras can you please keep your scout fortified where it is now, so that I can see if something is comming from the north since my second city is and wil remain empty for a while?
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