Team GONG

[CommandoBob]

They learned Theology from the FC-Axis (not sure I like that name but it serves the purpose ). Did they pass that knowledge on to Babe? Did they sell that knowledge to Babe?

Sure, we might get some gold from Gong by tech trading with The Council. We (the FC Axis) build up some brownie points with Gong. What happens to the tech after Gong gets it?

For now, we need to respond with a 'We'll have to discuss that' message.

Good move on Gong's part. I'm sure they expect us to refuse their offer.
They offer some good bait by claiming that Babe is being difficult, or at least slow, to work with.

I wonder if this could be a smoke screen to get the FC Axis to focus on Gong while Babe gets ready to invade?

 

[Empiremaker]

For reference, The Council's reply to GONG

Dear jb and all GONGlings,

Why dear! If we had known you wanted Theology, you could have just
asked! No need to steal these things, we're always happy to lend our
neighbors a cup of sugar, a cube of butter, or some of our advanced
and secret knowledge.

We're pleased to learn that we're so close to FREE that we're now an
Axis! Were you aware of this FREE? Good news, I'd say!

As for these other lower level techs you speak of… did you have a
proposal in mind? While we're always fans of vague and thinly-veiled
fishing expeditions… The Council would also be happy to entertain any
proposals you'd like to offer.
Hard for us to say, since we're not sure what kind of…er… "bind"… the
BABE's have you in!

All the Best,
General_W, speaking with the voice of The Council

P.S. Hello FREE!

 

[Empiremaker]

Converstaion between GONG and The Council

Dear jb,

We appreciate the candor in your last letter. Your proposal isn't very
appealing to us – but it may very well serve as a starting point for
more meaningful talks.

The super-long peace treaty we really see as more of a boon to you
than to us. The Council Intelligence Agency has made note of your jump
to Feudalism, whipping campaign, and rapid rise in culture. Let's just
say they put 2 and 2 together and came up with about 100k.

As for the gold you offered us on the tech – 25% of current/trade
value seems awfully stingy, especially for a Feudal government that,
as you've noted, has less need of gold.

We've crafted 3 Alternate Proposals for you to consider.

In all cases, our offer is the same – We'll give the secret of
Invention [indirectly, if needed], and agree to a guaranteed peace
treaty for 40 turns.

In return, we'd like:
Option A:

• 40% of the Monopoly Beaker Cost of Invention = 528 gold
• Treaty agreement to not then sell or trade Invention to anyone.
• Treaty agreement to not attack or materially support anyone in an
  attack on The Council or team FREE for 40 turns.

Option B:

• 60% of the Monopoly Beaker Cost of Invention = 792 gold
• NO restrictions on selling or trading Invention to anyone.
• Treaty agreement to not attack or materially support anyone in an
  attack on The Council or team FREE for 40 turns.

Option C:

• GONG researches Music Theory immediately after getting
  Education, and then immediately upon discovery gives it to The Council
• GONG agrees to forgo building of JS Bach's Cathedral
• Treaty agreement to not then sell or trade Music to anyone – but
  allowing trading of Invention
• Treaty agreement to not attack or materially support anyone in an
  attack on The Council or team FREE for 40 turns.

Any of those catch your fancy?


All the best,
General_W, speaking with the voice of The Council




On 8/17/07, niklas greback <go.gongshow@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Haha! Very good.
>
>
>
> We actually would like all your techs in exchange for a beer, one of Bug's
> songs, and Gong goodwill but I don't think that currency is quite so
> valuable that you would be willing to make that deal.
>
>
>
> Sorry about the axis reference. I guess that does sound a bit militaristic,
> and not in a good way. I just wanted to hurry things along because a deal
> cannot be made without both Team FREE's and The Council's cooperation via
> the, as you put it, Spybary. And it's not a secret that our path into the
> MIddle Ages w/ the Babes was right behind Team FREE and The Council. BTW,
> anyone seen SABER?
>
>
>
> The bind is that our current agreement w/ the Babes does not allow us to
> consort w/ others on tech w/o running it past the Babes. The Spybary gives
> us the opportunity to skirt that provision and keep w/i the letter of the
> law while maybe not the spirit.
>
>
>
> My fishing expedition is only to see if you're even interested in discussing
> the matter and what you might find worthwhile. I wasn't too involved in
> MPDG #1 so I didn't want to toss out any suggestions that would be
> insulting. Since Team Gong seems to consist of me, Daghie and Cane I'm
> pretty much flying solo on diplomacy. And Daghie only seems to show up to
> needle SABER. The one thing I did pick up from last game is that Team KISS
> would banter back and forth endlessly w/ the Nuts, getting nowhere; while we
> could all hear MIA's machinery clanking at a fevered pitch. I don't want to
> banter while Rome burns.
>
>
>
> I guess in my mind we can offer lasting peace, agreement to not materially
> support an aggressor, and futures on luxury trades and technology. All of
> our attempts to map beyond our continent ended abruptly, repeatedly, so we
> have little to offer in the way of maps other than our own which I doubt
> Cane would agree to part with. But I can always ask.
>
>
>
> How about Invention for peace for 80 turns & guaranteed luxury trading? For
> the peace agreement we'll pay you 25% of the current value of Invention, via
> installments. We're also open to paying more for the peace agreement
> should any other tech flow our way via the Spybary.
>
>
>
> Well, there's a starting position off the top of my pointy-head. Of course
> if there's no deal to be had prior to Education then we'll need to wait
> until we're less encumbered to discuss scientific cooperation.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
>
>
> Regards, jb

 

[Empiremaker]

Proposed reply. Assuming that we don't want to reveal knowledge of our alliance.

Dear GONG,

We are surprised that you would like to trade with us after the recent Triumph of Teal dispute. What have you been working out with The Council? We some of their information, but what has been going on in the negotiations between The Council and GONG in your words? What do you think of a Mutual BABE Information Pact? GONG and FREE would exchange any and all information on BABE's invasion fleet. Even though you have been working with BABE on advancing to the Middle Ages, do you trust them not to attack you, since you don't seem to have a strong military, according to our Military Advisor?

Sincerely,

Empiremaker

Please ignore spelling errors. I'm using IE, which doesn't have spell check.

 

[CommandoBob]

I would 'inform' them that Triumph of Teal was lost at sea just outside of Gong borders and those valiant citizens perished to make Gong happy.

And now they want to talk? While the nation of Free is still in mourning?

We'll listen, of course, but we're not yet in a mood to talk.

(Just an idea on how to play up the Triumph of Teal angle.)

 

[Kuningas]

Lux swap of Spices for Silks with GONG. What do you think?

 

[Elephantium]

Straight lux swaps sound fine to me.

 

[CommandoBob]

When we go to war with Gong, what are we trying to achieve? (Both short term and long term.)

Are we trying to stop the Gong culture express?
Eliminate Gong from the game?
Serve as a diversion for The Council/Saber to invade Babe/Gong?

I'm not saying we need to stay at peace with Gong. But now, as we build up our transports and naval forces, I think we do need to decide where we will invade, how we will defend and what we hope to achieve.

Information is critical and I wish we had a map of Gong. Or knew where their forces are located.

 

[Empiremaker]

I see that we have 3 goals from the war.

1. Stop GONG culture victory
2. Put us closer to domination
3. Be a great place for specialist farms to speed up science to
a. Get us better troops
b. Help us potentially win a space race.


If I have time, I'll make a map of the GONG continent, with our current knowledge.

 

[Kuningas]

I would research AW as our next tech. Marines can capture a coastal city and then tanks can go directly after inland cities. If we are lucky GONG is not prepared and we would capture half of GONG's cities in one turn.

Attack plan from SW anf from North.

 

[Empiremaker]

I would be worried about overextending ourselves on the invasion turn. I bet they have some cavalry, and with enough, they could take enough cities to put us at 100% WW. I think we should take a couple on the first turn, and position to take their capital.

 

[CommandoBob]

When we capture a city that tile and the 8 tiles that surround it become FREE land. Aside from that fact, and the fact that it makes movement easier for us, is there any other reason to keep the cities after we capture them?

I'm worried about flip risks and losing the cities to counterattacks. Somehow I think (and I don't know why) that at some point we would just want to raze the cities.

This is just a discussion/education point.

 

[Empiremaker]

I think we could take out GONG in 3-5 turns. Over that span, we might get 1 or 2 flips. If a city flips, we may lose 0-2 units, then a tank should be able to mop up a regular rifle/infantry.

I don't see counter-attacks as a huge issue once we work through their initial stack. They are weak to us, and they will have cavs and infantry (attack 6) vs FREE tanks (defense 8) or infantry (defense 10). Those units, especially if fortified, should be able to hold our gains well.

 

[CommandoBob]

On Turn 199 I made some early invasion plans and then investigated Gong cities in that area. I had planned to investigate just Yellow Brick Road and Stone Pony, but examined three more cities as they were revealed. These screenshots are also in the Turnlog.

Gong Invasion Before City Investigations

Spoiler :

I was just trying to see what we could reach in 2 turns from TuTuba.

Gong Coastline After City Investigations

Spoiler :

Gong: Yellow Brick Road

Spoiler :

Gong: Stone Pony

Spoiler :

Gong: Townes van Zandt

Spoiler :

Gong: Palace of the Brine

Spoiler :

Gong: Whip It!

Spoiler :

These screenshots are in the Turnlog for Turn 199, but no analysis of them or of the early invasion plans. Those topics seem better suited to this thread.

 

[Empiremaker]

IIRC, they have some Wonders in Sugar Mountain. We can hit that on the first turn of the invasion.

I think we should capture "Hotel California", "Stone Pony", "Rock Lobesterford", "Sugar Mountian", "Whip it", "Palace of the Brine", "Townes van Zandt", "Yellow Brick Road" and if necessary to put them at 120 WWP, "Stone Castle"/"Guitar Town".

Then move tanks 1E of Sugar Mountain, so that on the second turn we can capture their capitol.

Of the GONG cities, what should we raze?

After we conquer GONG, we need a plan to prevent a blitz invasion of our land. I think we should have just 1 coastal city, with forests surrounding what would become our land, so that if we are invaded, on the first turn, they could only conquer 1 city.

 

[CommandoBob]

Invasion Fleet Turns
So we would need to capture both Stone Pony and Yellow Brick Road on the first turn and then move our Transports into those cities to unload (and not sacrfice movement points of Tanks and Infantry).

This will mean two turns our Invasion fleet is at sea. (Sort of obvious, I know. Turn One: move 2 tiles and stop, while still inside our territory (if possible). Turn Two: move all six tiles. Turn Three: use 4 MP and arrive at the dots, unload enough Tanks to take the city, and then move into the newly captured city. Then fan out across Gongdom.

If we use our SGL to build Magellan's Voyage this issue goes away. And we spend only one turn at sea. It would also mean we would need fewer ships to ship-chain from Free to Gong.

I don't have the game open (wrong pc) but in checking our game history thread I don't show that anyone has built that Wonder.

Invasion Forces
We have 5 Transports right now, and, IIRC, 3 more are being built, to give us a total in the near future of 8 transports. Four transports per city; 6 units in each transport; that is 24 units for each city. Two cities makes that 48 units.

What unit mix do we want when we invade?

Capture or Raze
If we want to advance any at all in the Gong interior, I don't think we can raze any cities. If we do, the culture expansion from the other cities will just reclaim that tile. Each city we looked into has a Library, Temple, Universtiy and Cathedral, even midget city of Stone Pony. Gong is culture heavy. So, we keep all the cities we capture the first turn, and maybe raze/abandon them on the second turn, once we push the borders back further.

I do think we should raze/replace Yellow Brick Road (5). Stone Pony (1) should not auto-raze, given all the culture it has. We can add some workers to make it more loyal. Yellow Brick Road is a definite flip risk. Better to get some slaves and rebuild it.

We would have to capture Yellow Brick Road, move the Settler Transport into it, unload the Settler, abandon the city and then resettle it. Do we lose our Transport doing that?

 

[Empiremaker]

When we arrive at their coast, wouldn't we use a couple of marines to take the cities?

For advancing into the interior we can always raze and replace by moving a settler to the city location on rails, abandoning, and replacing, but this transfers any :whip: unhappiness to other cities. As long as we don't have many troops in a city and it is not on the front lines, a flip means there will be just 1 reg rifle in the city, which would be easy to recapture.

I say we need maybe 30 infantry, 40 tanks, 10 marines, 1 settler and 9 artillery in our i initial invasion fleet. That's 15 transports.

If we abandon the city with a naval unit in the city, we lose the unit.

 

[CommandoBob]

When we arrive at their coast, wouldn't we use a couple of marines to take the cities?

Forgot about Marines, since we can't build any yet.

I don't build many Marines in solo games, either.

 

[Elephantium]

1. When do we declare on GONG? Before we launch our fleet, the turn before we land our troops, or the turn we actually invade?

2. How soon do we intend to invade? I'd be tempted to delay long enough to get a dozen Marines so that we could take the first two GONG cities on our landing turn. Besides, they might try a coastal blockade of the Yellow Brick Road area if they suspect an invasion.

 

[Empiremaker]

1. When do we declare on GONG? Before we launch our fleet, the turn before we land our troops, or the turn we actually invade?

We have 2-3 turns on Amphibious War. We'll need a lot more tanks though, so maybe in 7-8 turns our fleet will be launched. Invasion will then be around turn 210.

2. How soon do we intend to invade? I'd be tempted to delay long enough to get a dozen Marines so that we could take the first two GONG cities on our landing turn. Besides, they might try a coastal blockade of the Yellow Brick Road area if they suspect an invasion.

I agree.