Team Python- Monarch Training!

Sounds like a plan to me. Having planted that first city, though, I think we may want to station some units north of it, to keep the Arabs from skirting around it and colonizing to our NW. Definitely want to make the choke point next, though, and keep it *heavily* defended. Those wines are tempting, though...
 
Ok, I think we should try to grab the cattle near the Arabian Capitol, THIS would congest them alot. Though there may be a small chance that we get it, if not THEN we move the settler to the pink dot.

I think you got your dots mixed up, the blue one is supposed to be on tile SW and the yellow dot is too far from the capitol, the closer the better, dont hesitate to overlap a little, especcially if it will lower corruption. The first ring cities should be no more than 4 tiles away, then you may space the second ring to the terrian.

I agree, there may not be another civ, but I still think we should block the chokepoint incase. The best way now is to use our scout. Build a couple of productive cities and then build another city if we encounter an enemy scout, or explorer. ;)

Though continue the game the way you absolutly think is the best. KotatsuNeku is logged on so maybe you get a reply from him also.

Where is CivGeneral? He has posted in this thread only about 3 times. :)
 
Turn Log

Preturn - Micromanage Karakorm to receive +1 commerce, allowing us to reduce the tech to 10% and receive 1 more gold per turn in the bank. Still at 2 turns to grow and 3 to pop the settler. (moved from Bonus Grassland to Flood Plains).
Tweak display preferences :D

IBT - Arab scout walks onto mountains west of Karakorum.


2900BC - Move scout north of Mecca to see what the Arabs have above their city.
Southern scout find another 3 Wines south of the other two.
Warrior fortified in Karakorum to serve as settler escort.

IBT - Worker finishes irrigating Flood Plains. Karakorum reaches size 5, will grow in 2 turns (+5 food :D). Arabs build Medina on the COW!? at the southern end of the little pond south-west on Mecca (It has 3 bg next to it, and 3 more 1 tile away, so it'll produce quite a bit of shields if we let it survive).


2850BC - Ta-Tu build scout, starts on worker (due in 5, will reach size 2 in 5).
Worker begins roading Flood Plains (show me the money!)
Northern scout find a cow north west of Mecca.
Southern scout is hacking his way through the jungle.
Newly produced scout is heading northwest towards the dark patch.
Far northwest scout is heading south east towards the dark patch.

IBT - nothing


2800BC - Karakorum produces settler. Starts on settler. Size 3, will grow in 2. Settler due in 5, with 6 shields per turn.
Drop Luxury Tax to 0%.
Settler moves with regular warrior to the purple dot.
Northern scout finds another cow and wines (doh!) west/northwest of Mecca.
Northwestern scout finds a river cow as he enters the dark patch.

IBT - nothing


2750BC - Northeastern scout heads south towards the chokepoint.
Southern scout heads southwest away from the jungle, across plains and hills.
Northwestern scout explores yet more forest.

IBT - glimpse of Arab scout south west of Karakorum. I'll try and head him off at the gap.
Karakorum grows to size 4, will expand in 3, settler due in 3.
Worker finishes roading Flood Plains.


2710BC - Worker moves east to the plains.
Micromanage Karakorum to grow in 2, with production still in 3 (move bg to Flood Plains). <--- Does anyone remember how long you have to work Flood Plains before you get disease? This early in the game, that could be brutal.
Raise Luxury tax to 10%
Warrior/Settler combo move to the purple dot.
Northwest scout discovers game northeast of the ivory patch.
Northeast scout discovers 2 dyes in the dark.
Southern scout heads south one last square, and then heads north to the chokepoint. Heading south discovers the end of that spit of land (but a lot more across the water east), and a cow on the eastern land.

IBT - nothing


2670BC - worker begins roading river plains (irrigate/mine gives us nothing, as we wont use the square, and roading gets our luxuries hooked up earlier).
Kazan founded on the purple dot, begins producing scout (not sure if it's needed, but never hurts). Producing 2 shields per turn, 1 food, will grow in 20, scout due in 5.
Scout exploration, nothing but forest.

IBT - Ta-Tu grows to size 2. Karakorum grows to size 5.


2630BC - Ta-Tu produces worker, drops back down to 1 :D Starts on Barracks. I'm thinking that with it this close to the Arabs, it should pretty much produce only military, and we might as well have them be vets. Barracks due in 10, will grow in 20.
Karakorum will grow in 2, settler in 1.
Up Luxury Tax to 20%.
Ta-Tu worker moves to Dyes, with intentions of becoming a woodchopper.
Northwest scout finds two bonus grasslands among the trees. Northeast scout finds a mountain, and what looks like the tip of this penninsula.

IBT - nothing

2590BC - Karakorum produces settler, drops to size 3. Set to produce settler. Will grow in 2, settler due in 5.
Reduce Luxury Tax to 0%.
Ta-Tu worker starts chopping forest, will complete the turn after the barracks <-- HEADS UP NEXT PLAYER
Northeastern scout realizes that the penninsula keeps going :rolleyes:
Northwestern scout finds a barb camp with a pair of warriors in it. :eek: :(
Southern scout keeps heading north towards the chokepoint.
Kazan changes from scout to warrior (still due in 3).


Opening trade window with Arabia shows that they have 60 gold, Dyes hooked up, and a single other city. Same techs as us still.


I have not moved the settler yet. There is still one move left on the northwestern scout, and the far east scout is one square north of Ta-Tu with 2 moves, and available for settler interdiction.

I'd like to know where the rest of you think we should place the scout and settler, and what to do with that scout next to the barb camp.

Here is an updated picture:
http://home.comcast.net/~lordkestrell/pictures/TGPython_2590BC_sitrep.jpg

And here is a zoom in on the barbs:
http://home.comcast.net/~lordkestrell/pictures/TGPython_2590BC_barbs.jpg

And here is a zoom in on the Arab border:
http://home.comcast.net/~lordkestrell/pictures/TGPython_2590BC_arabs.jpg

I'll try and update that dotmap.


Any comments on so far? It looks like I have the rest of this turn, plus the next to play. Unless I hear otherwise, I'll be moving the settler down to the chokepoint. Seeing as how there are now barbs, we NEED to start pumping some warriors out for defense. I was hoping that there wouldn't be any, so we could use unescorted settlers. I'm tempted to change Karakorum from his settler (due in 5) to a warrior (due in 2), but I think we should keep Karakorum on a strict 5 turn settler regimen.
 
Originally posted by amirsan
I think you got your dots mixed up, the blue one is supposed to be on tile SW and the yellow dot is too far from the capitol, the closer the better, dont hesitate to overlap a little, especcially if it will lower corruption. The first ring cities should be no more than 4 tiles away, then you may space the second ring to the terrian.

So do you want me to move the dark blue one onto the Ivory (one square SE)? Or move the Light Blue one square SW onto the coast?

EDIT: And the reason the yellow one is where it is, is so that we can get the two flood plains in it's radius. We can move it south east, but we lose one of the 2 flood plains.
 
Looks to me like the Arabs have room for three more cities - in the tundra, near the wines, and west of Mecca - before they start to push outwards. And the dark patch north of us turned out larger than I suspected; when the Arabs get Map Making, they'll definitely cut across and colonize the area north-northwest of us like crazy. And they'll want our 'phants, too.

EDIT: Looking at that revised dotmap... I've never been very fond of the whole RCP thing, and in this case it looks like there's a bunch of overlap, particularly with the light green and red cities. Whatever the group decides to go with, though.
 
Originally posted by amirsan
I see your point Speaker but it is part of what you get as an Expansionist, if we do then what was the point of having an expansionist trait. We might as well give away the free techs and gold!
Of course I understand the point of the Expansionist trait, but since this is a training game, the trainees shouldn't rely on any advantages or lean on any crutches (which is why TDGs are not usually played with Industrious or Religious Civs). This is why I set a few ground rules in the TDG I ran: 1) No Pyramids, 2) No Great Library, 3) Abandon advanced tribes, 4) Disband free settlers. The point of a TDG is to improve skills and tactics that can be used in any game. With 2x expansion, I don't think you will truly learn how to play on Monarch. I think the previous TDG hosts (Sirp, Sullla, Sirian, LKendter, etc) would agree with me here.

Of course these are just my $.02 and you don't have to run your game like I did. But just keep in mind that the point here is to learn, not to win.
 
I don't think I ever ran a game with expansionist trait. I tended to pick the less usefull traits such as commercial.
 
@Lee: The second best ball game that unfortuneatly got abandoned :( was with England but being expansionist stunk without huts.

We played Sirian's Prod game with England as well but don't recall seeing any free settlers. And Sullla5 (a and b) was England as well.

FWIW: Advanced tribes are not all they are not all they are cracked up to be. I got 1 in Gotm 22 and it was in a terrible position should've just abandoned it.
 
Until we hear from more, I won't play anymore on this tonight. I'll take a look at doing some other city placements, and see if I can come up with anything else.
 
Originally posted by amirsan
Where is CivGeneral? He has posted in this thread only about 3 times. :)

Im still here. Im just remaining quiet since I dont want to interup. Also Im stil waiting for my Turn :D.

Also the reason I am quiet is that This is my first TDG in a long time. And I am afraid to post in my ideas since im afraid they would be turned down as :smoke:y moves.

Also, does anyone know where jimmydean's save is at, since I want to look at thesave and give my ideas a best shot I have.
 
Since I dont have the save to view and post my Ideas, I think I should relay my ideas using the Pics jimmydean has posted.

Well, here goes my proposed Ideas (and also try to partisipate more in this TDG so I dont hear "Where is CivGeneral?" ;) )

That Warrior stack by that Scout, Move that scout away from them. Speeking about Barbarians, I have learned from Cheftess to build Warriors and move/Fortify them on Mountans so that they can take advantage of the exstended View.

The Scout on the hill surrouned by the wines resources, I beleve would be a Good City Spot (Although it would see more corruption)

Since we have cornered the Arabs to the NE. I would recomend setteling on that plain that is 1 NW of that Gold Mountan (3 Tiles NW and 2 Tiles NE) It would greate a barrier for the Arabs so they dont sneek past us and start snatching up our planed city spots
 
I'm here, I just haven't finished my turns, while waiting on feedback on my completed turns, and where to move that settler.

I was planning on moving that scout next to the barbs south, but where to take him from there I hadn't decided. Possbily east to the Arabs as a territory denial unit.

The settler is what I'm mostly concerned with. He won't have an escort, so I don't want to move him far (ie, not down to the choke point), and the newly created city will be vulnerable to barbs. Perhaps we can dance around them with a scout to occupy them?

Glad to see that you're still around cg. Once I get home tonight, I'll wrap up my last two turns, and post the save.
 
Ok! This baby is moving! Sorry I couldn't post earlier, I was making my report on Wordpad and saved it becuase I couldn't finish it at he moment, now I'm done.

PreTurn- Ok, what you did here was good! When entering Monarch and above, Micro-Managing becomes a huge part of the game, sinse every piece of gold, food and shield makes a difference in a game where we get no bonus like Chieften and Warlord.

1- Luxuries will help alot, this is alot of luxuries, something we will have to take advantage of.

2- Well that shows AI STUPIDITY! :lol: I guess its on to the pink dot, I should've known that we weren't going to get that city.

3- Well I realy dont see a purple dot in the map, but maybe you meant the Pink one, lol. Plus signs here, I see nothing wrong.

4- Fine

5- Ok, our settler production is roughfly 6 turns. We want to get it to 4, no? So we are going to have to make it grow faster and more. You exactly did what I was thinking, very good.

6- Roading is good thinking for fast emergency unit movement. Why a scout though?!?! We have enough and have explored almost all the land. In this situation, build something that will worth the 20turn while, like barracks, or a temple! We have too many scouts, soon it may be the time to disband them if we dont have any other uses for them.

7- I would have though it would need a granary for more food production which would lead to more shields. I dont have the save right now, but finding a way to make the capitol grow one more size before the settler would have helped, the best way to get a good settler factory, we should get it to size 6 and make it grow at the same time the settler finishes. This happend to me in a curren Diety Game as he Greeks, it would allow us to make it a 3-turn settler factory as well if dont properly.

8- The forest chop start is a good intention, :goodjob: Your change from scout to warrior is good, are you reading my mind? :D

So far you did good, no bad parts to it. All mistakes you recovered the turn later, ;). About the settler, we need to work a productive city so when we need it its done with all infastructure. That would probably be the floodplains and plains. We can get a good amount of shields and food to cover it. About the barb, what should we do? Move our extra warior there and if we could move our scout then move it, if not then what can we do?

And welcome back CG, dont be afraid to put input, even if you think its going to be smoky, we should forbid that icon from this game ;). This is a team game and I'm sure you know your part of this team right, so if you have a comment, suggestion or constructive criticism, dont hesitate to show it off. :)
 
About your dotmap, we shouldn't have to follow a pattern, I am totally against that. We should be able to follow our city placements by terrain, place them so in the future and even now they can be productive. I am not against overlapping a little (ie. 3 or 4 tiles at the most) but 9 tiles are way tooooo much for our very productive city. We shouldn't rely on RCP and OCP. Rely on the terrain around us.

I think our second dotmap was fine, it shows productive coastal cities, no wasted floodplains and not that much tile overlap. Though its good you had you suggestion so we can all learn something. :)
 
Dotmap1.JPG
 
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