Tech choices......Monarch or republic???

[wvfoos]

Ok, I play as the greeks, science and commerical are my traits, ptw latest patch....


So, here's what I *try* to do. I'm trying to conquer regent level right now. I don't fight any early wars, unless i have absolutely NO choice. More often than not, I don't find myself embroiled in too many early wars..

Techwise, I set the tree to get me to republic as fast as possible. I NEVER go for monarch, and even when I get it (usually many turns after some other civs get it, and its almost a throw away tech they give me for some luxury or something), i don't use it. I like to build early, fight late. So, I build my libraries, banks, mktplaces, univs, etc. as soon as I can. Likewise stock exchange and wall street. Unless I'm just square out of some resource that I desperately need early, and can't seem to get in trade, I won't start any wars.

My question is, am I really losing out, on those extra turns staying in despotism until i get to repub, as opposed to racing to monarch, getting out from under the despot penalties (ie, no "3" food, shield, etc), and THEN going for repub while in monarch? I always thought it was a better idea, if not embroiled in a war early, to just full steam ahead to repub, and not waste those turns going for monarch first.

 

[Arathorn]

I would definitely say you're doing it right. Full-bore to Republic is a fine way to go. You can usually pick up a bunch of the other techs on the way (although I would probably divert to Pottery first), by trading what you've researched.

As a religious civ, there's some argument for beelining to Monarchy and revolting twice, since you would only have two turns of anarchy (and start with a tech towards Monarchy), but with a non-religious civ, it often makes sense to go Despotism-Republic and stay there for the rest of the game.

Arathorn

 

[Baltimoretrader]

I prefer Monarchy. I play a very scientific strategy, but I like being able to house a large army. it is a real advantage later in the game to pay to accelerate production. Monarchy seems to save me some cash flow too.

 

[Krayzeenbk]

You should definetely go for Republic if you are a builder, you're doing everything right. With libraries and marketplaces going up, the trade bonus will make a huge contribution to your science.

 

[farting bob]

ya, republic is the way to go. go through pottery as well for that settler factroy and make sure you also get to lit quick so you can build the great library,w hch means whiel youer getting republic, you can get the other techs goign up to monarchy or going up to construction.

 

[Norlamand]

Republic is my favorite gov no matter what type of strategy I'm using for the game. I tend to play the builder anyway and having a massive army isn't needed (usually.....). The decreased corruption and commerce bonus are quite helpful.

 

[wvfoos]

Originally posted by farting bob
ya, republic is the way to go. go through pottery as well for that settler factroy and make sure you also get to lit quick so you can build the great library,w hch means whiel youer getting republic, you can get the other techs goign up to monarchy or going up to construction.

Yeah, I've got to start managing my production, and PLAN for the GL a couple of techs in advance. Set some city to build a palace or something. I got sort of screwed last game on that, in that the carthaginians beat me to it. Consequently, that cut into my strategy of making $$ and resources in trade off my techs in the early game, and really allowed hannibal and his minions to hang around at the top of the leaderboard much longer than I'd have liked. IIRC, literature is NOT required for repub, so i sort of bypassed it. I have to agree with you in that it might be worth the detour from repub to lit, having prebuilt the GL, for the civ advances that you might make up with the GL on the way to repub.......

I think, to REALLY maximize this game, you REALLY must micromanage just about every aspect of the game. Almost to the point of agonizing over whether to build another rifleman, or get wild and crazy and just build that cannon. And part of the micromanagement comes from planning ahead and making sure when you get certain techs, you can drill home the Wonder in just a couple of turns, if not instantly.

 

[budweiser]

You guys are not evil enough. What I usually do - if I can swing it, is this. I go for Monarchy, and I switch right away and enjoy a few turns of production bonus over the ai. But I dont trade it yet. I make some trades and get within research range of republic and start to research it. Then I keep looking at the trade screens and try to figure out who is going for republic and when will they get it. If I think someone is ablout to get republic, then I dump monarchy on the market and they all pay big bucks for it and happily switch over. At this point, I am just about into republic and I make a switch. Naturally I dont trade it and the poor ai suckers are stuck in an inferior gov. Eventually some will get republic, but not after a very long time. You can do the same with democracy. Its great when it works.

 

[Arathorn]

budweiser, you're not playing a hard enough difficulty level. I often change into Republic about the time Leonardo's gets built, because that's how soon I can get it.

Republic is just, in general, the best government, so it makes sense to not waste 6 turns of anarchy going to an intermediate government.

Now, if you're playing always war (AW) or are an extreme war-monger, monarchy works out and can be worth bee-lining to. But, in general, it's not worth going to Monarchy first. Researching it first and selling for big bucks, maybe, if the AI's have cash, but not really switching to (unless you're religious)....

Arathorn

 

[budweiser]

Arathorn, that trick works on Emporer. I dont know if it would work on Diety, but it might.

 

[DS_Legionary]

I myself always make a beeline for Monarchy. I am always at war early in the game. It's the best way of expansion in my opinion. Then about the time that Gunpowder is discovered I try to get out of all of my wars seeing as how at that point and for awhile afterwards war is useless. I then switch to building, but stay in Monarchy due to the fact I like having a large army. Then once Democracy is discovered, and I have gotten Wall Street built I will then switch to Democracy. I never really bother with Republic. Anyways that's just my strategy on what I beeline to first out of the two.

 

[Krayzeenbk]

I often do the opposite I get Republic as soon as I can for fast tech and to accumulate some gold. I try to stay out of wars in early Medieval and usually skip Chivalry, build Leo, go for universities. Then I get Military Tradition and upgrade my horsemen to cavalry. Late Medieval and very early Industrial is a huge war, I get very big very fast and switch to Communism as soon as I research it. If the wars don't yield lots of cities, I just stay in Republic until/if I get Democracy.

 

[ahmedbony]

I am a real fan of the Republic. Personally, monarchy just has toooo much coruption!

 

[DAKjungF]

The "problem" with monarchy, as I see it, is that it requires a lot of size 12-> cities to make the cut for me. Before Communism and hospitals I actually jump to Despotism (if I am religious) to make wars. The corruption isn't that bad, and I can rush temples in the cities I conquer...

Of course, I try to milk Republic as much as possible first, setting the luxury slider to 40-50%, and increasing after a while.

 

[Darkness]

Originally posted by DAKjungF
The "problem" with monarchy, as I see it, is that it requires a lot of size 12-> cities to make the cut for me. Before Communism and hospitals I actually jump to Despotism (if I am religious) to make wars. The corruption isn't that bad, and I can rush temples in the cities I conquer...

Of course, I try to milk Republic as much as possible first, setting the luxury slider to 40-50%, and increasing after a while.

Despotism? Why?

Despotism has way more corruption than monarchy and you'll get more free (upkeep) units with monarchy.

In last months GOTM (22) I beelined straight for monarchy and stayed in it the entire game. I had an excellent research rate and I reached the domination limit shortly after 1000AD, which I could never have done in despotism. And probably also not in republic, as I was at war for most of the game...

 

[Arathorn]

@budweiser -- yes, it works on deity. I would never recommend anything that didn't work at all difficulty levels, including beyond deity.

@Darkness -- Monarchy does not have more free unit upkeep than despotism in all situations. Despotism gives 4 free units per settlement, regardless of size. Monarchy gives 2 for towns, 4 for cities, and 6 for metropolises. If you have a bunch of metropolises, then Monarchy has more free unit upkeep than Despotism, but in general Despotism has more. Now, whether that and the ability to whip is worth the tile and corruption penalties of Despotism is an issue I'll remain mute on....

And Republics are marvelous during war-time, as long as you're not losing cities, bombarding TOO heavily (e.g. pre-IA wars), or in them forever. The difference in war weariness between Republic and Democracy is something to behold.

(It's not hard to reach domination on Emperor before 1000 AD while never touching Monarchy, either, as far as that goes.)

Arathorn

 

[budweiser]

Sorry Arathorn, I was talking about my trick working on Emporer, not what you said.

 

[Herse]

Also, as the Greeks you get Alphabet (and Bronze Working) to start, IIRC. So, you are already on your way to Republic, but you have none of the prerequisite techs for Monarchy. On higher levels, when you are behind in tech to start, it can really pay to go towards Monarchy, because the path to Republic is more frequently researched by the AI. Getting a monoply on Monarch can really help you to catch up on techs if you trade well and then you can trade for/buy Republic, which is the better government to be in IMHO. As a last point, I constantly slip into military conflicts when I play and I really don't have too much trouble warring under Democracy. I can't imagine changing to Despotism, even if I were a Religious civ. Don't be afraid to use the luxury slider. If the war is really drawn out so that War Weariness will cripple you, you could probably be doing some things better.

Herse

 

[wvfoos]

I started a new game, after the one on which this thread was based, ended with my embarrassing defeat at the hands of the despicable chinese, who shot off their spaceship before I did...

So, in the new game (still as the greeks) I had a decent starting position again, with an initial starting position to allow me a settler factory in my capital.....

So, i start expanding. Problem is, I'm bordered on the northwest by horrendous jungles (which wreak havoc on your tile improvement until you can get to democracy), and on the northwest, by a serious mountain range. Just beyond the mountain range, is some useable land on the coast, but only for like 3-4 medium cities. Beyond the jungles, is the iriquois. To the south, I could expand unhindered, as I was on the end of the pennisulam, and it was mostly plains, desert, and grasslands.

In that scenario, imo, I HAD to get to democracy as fast as possible. Just for the worker efficiency, to help clear the jungles. And that's what I did. I took the advice here, and detoured to the GL and got it early, and even managed to get into an early war (they just up and declared on me, not sure why) with the iriquois (which got me my golden age at about 2500 bc - not sure whether thats better than a GA later on). I sped onto democracy, and changed as fast as possible. Built my railroads, and improved all my tiles.

My question now is, is it worth it to go BACK to republic, if I just want to build after that point? I really don't like war mongering until the modern age, when I have all sorts of cool toys to use. Is the trade off on worker efficiency, WW, and corruption enough to back off democracy? Am i right that there are no real "bonuses" to democracy in the way of coins, other than through corruption decrease? In past versions (civ, civ2) didnt' democracy give you a commerce bonus straight out??

 

[Michael York]

I believe there is a commerce bonus for both Demo & Repo in this, but Demo is distinctly the ideal one for the conditions you describe.