Tech Progression Too Fast?

[Bkeela]

Sometimes in Civ IV I felt the various eras went by too quickly, especially the medieval era. But now with the eureka system, and two tech trees, are we going to be able to appreciate and utilise the various upgrades before a new one comes along?

I checked out one of Quill18's videos, and at around the 1600's he was researching computers. Meanwhile his empire had many unimproved tiles - his capital hadn't even built the roman baths. I'm not sure if this is his playstyle, or that the techs are researched too damn quickly (he was playing standard speed).

Yes there will be epic modes, but they are hardly fun when it takes forever to build units. It's really just standard stretched out longer. And then imbalance issues can creep in.

I get that Firaxis want to make Civ VI more multiplayer friendly, and they like players to have lots of choices such that the eureka system introduces, but when it comes at the expense of pacing, and that classic Civilization gameplay we all love, I wonder if it is innovation for the sake of it.

 

[IBrutal lLegend]

Im sure all the values will change and they will have these things balanced at launch, this version they are playing is from how long ago

 

[stealth_nsk]

Well, it's Prince difficulty and most of reviewers are strong players. So I don't think the situation is that bad. However:
- It surely needs some work and I hope there's enough time till release.
- Eureka system makes balancing this a lot more difficult as some eurekas depend on game speed (exploration ones) and some on game difficulty.

 

[Al Bundy]

It is true. I also saw Quill18's videos and he entered Industrial Era in 700AD. o_O He sure rushed science, but in my opinion that needs to be rebalanced.

 

[Magil]

Well I was already planning to play chiefly on Epic... maybe I'll even be doing Marathon for VI, like I used to do in IV! The tech pacing in these press preview builds seems to be rather break-neck pace. Prince or no, Eurekas or not, it seems to move very quickly.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

As I understand it, balancing tends to be one of the last things to be fixed prior to release-that and minor graphics improvements. Also remember that the videos we've seen are from press builds that were handed out around early September.....if I'm not mistaken. I suspect we will see Eureka and Inspiration moments toned down slightly before the final release.

 

[Bino]

It is true. I also saw Quill18's videos and he entered Industrial Era in 700AD. o_O He sure rushed science, but in my opinion that needs to be rebalanced.

Im halfway watching his Rome stream, tbh he had his usual bad science start and I did not see him really rushing science, I tend to agree it seems too quick when it comes to progression.

 

[Jabulani]

Im sure all the values will change and they will have these things balanced at launch, this version they are playing is from how long ago

How can you be so sure ? The game will be released soon and there is no time for rebalancing it, these days are for cosmetic tweaks only.

The ones who preordered it will beta test it and the first patch will balance the stuff, several weeks after the release.

That not to blame Firaxians but nowdays it works like that, pity.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

How can you be so sure ? The game will be released soon and there is no time for rebalancing it, these days are for cosmetic tweaks only.

The ones who preordered it will beta test it and the first patch will balance the stuff, several weeks after the release.

That not to blame Firaxians but nowdays it works like that, pity.

Like I said, the press build is about a month old, and the game itself is still 3 weeks away. Even a small studio like Frontier Developments (who produce a game I'm currently addicted to) are able to put out major changes to their game in the space of just a week, so minor balance changes-for someone like Firaxis-will easily be do-able if it becomes clear that the balance is all out of whack.

 

[Jabulani]

Like I said, the press build is about a month old, and the game itself is still 3 weeks away. Even a small studio like Frontier Developments (who produce a game I'm currently addicted to) are able to put out major changes to their game in the space of just a week, so minor balance changes-for someone like Firaxis-will easily be do-able if it becomes clear that the balance is all out of whack.

I wish your trust in Firaxis will pay off but civ vi is a complex equation and the risk of unbalancing it few working days before releasing it to Steam imo is too high, considering also that they are still working on a lot of minor stuff highlighted by the videos. Those videos have a duplex function, matketing advs and passive beta testing. Fireaxians are smart pros

 

[Aldor]

From watching Quill18's stream, it seemed to me that the tech rate may be very fast, but the low production cancels this out somewhat. For example, Quill18 has the ability to build a spaceport in around 1500? or so, but it would take him many dozen turns to build that in his best production city (not even to mention actually building the science victory projects then). Could be because of suboptimal playing though (focusing science instead of production first)..

 

[Al Bundy]

From watching Quill18's stream, it seemed to me that the tech rate may be very fast, but the low production cancels this out somewhat. For example, Quill18 has the ability to build a spaceport in around 1500? or so, but it would take him many dozen turns to build that in his best production city (not even to mention actually building the science victory projects then). Could be because of suboptimal playing though (focusing science instead of production first)..

Yes, I agree. Quill18's playstyle is bit odd in my opinion. He completely ignores faith and culture and only cares for science and building military units. He even wanted to renounce to the Great Prophet available. o_O Don't you want to found a religion? Luckily, he took that Great Prophet in a last minute decision, but that was the end of religion in his gameplay (at least in the parts I watched. I didn't watch the videos until the end, sorry).

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I agree--they're just flying through the tech tree. I think Eurekas are too easy and too powerful. I'd tone those down a bit and possibly up the difficulty on some of them. And then maybe also crank tech costs up.

If Civ VI is released with the same balance that I see in the live streams, I'll probably have to play the game on Epic. I don't like a pace of one tech every four or five turns, especially when each era only has seven or so techs.

EDIT: to give some examples of increasing difficulties on Eurekas:

Writing's requirement to meet another Civ is a total joke (or, in the rare case that you're isolated, completely impossible). Sending a trade route to another Civ is a more reasonable and flavorful requirement. Currency's Eureka could change from establishing a trade route to something harder. Perhaps stockpiling 500 gold in the treasury.

Foreign Trade's requirement of discovering another continent is also a joke (I suppose Firaxis may have designed this to introduce players to the new continent system, but it's bad gameplay.) Discovering the Wheel tech would be a better Eureka.

The Eurekas requiring things like one farm and one mine are way too easy, too. Maybe make Irrigation two farms and Wheel two mines, so that you can't get both with just one Builder.

Generally speaking, I think the Eurekas should require careful planning and/or significant sacrifices on the player's part. Right now, most of them don't. They just happen.

 

[Resand]

Tech progression is way to fast. Arumba just hit the medieval era in 950BC, with zero campuses build.
It looks like they balanced the tech tree thinking that Eureka's would be rare and than made them trivial to get.

 

[Jabulani]

Yes, I agree. Quill18's playstyle is bit odd in my opinion. He completely ignores faith and culture and only cares for science and building military units. He even wanted to renounce to the Great Prophet available. o_O Don't you want to found a religion? Luckily, he took that Great Prophet in a last minute decision, but that was the end of religion in his gameplay (at least in the parts I watched. I didn't watch the videos until the end, sorry).

I would call his gameplay style : " pragmatic ".

Who cares about religion and tourism cosmetic stuff when focusing on science ( ala Civ V ) you can reach industrial era in '700, medieval era in 950 BC and spaceport in 1500 ?

 

[stealth_nsk]

On a side note, I don't think we'll actually focus on eurekas that much on higher difficulties. People in LP videos too often choose technology/policy they have eureka for over ones they really need. I expect things to be quite different on Deity.

For example, Armory is unlocked with Military Engineering and building one is a boost for Gunpowder, which is next tech. On higher difficulty levels I expect players o mostly ignore the eureka and jump right to Gunpowder from Military Engineering, because those Muskets will be needed badly.

 

[IBrutal lLegend]

Jabulani no need to be worried, Its not that hard to change the value of each tech, for example if irrigation need 50 science all they have to do is change that to 100 or whatever

 

[Baleur]

It was the same in Civ5 vanilla though, they had to issue a patch to raise tech costs because it was far too fast at launch day.
I wouldnt be surprised if they do the same for Civ6, but it would be nice if they learnt their lesson prior to release.
Why are they so obsessed with quick tech progression? There's nothing bad if it were to be a bit too SLOW instead of too FAST. Anything is better than it being too fast, especially given the Eureka system.

Honestly i may play singleplayer with a mod that maybe makes Eurekas only grant a 25% boost instead of a 50% boost. I always thought getting HALF a tech for FREE was a bit too good.

 

[Lordkhan II.]

i am also skeptical about the Eurekas. But i hope there will be other factors which will me keep busy so that i can not rush to the trees. China will be a beast.

also there is your production which limits you.

my biggest concern ist still the diplomacy. will the ai leave you alone? will it make good trade choices? i always hated that they were willingly give up cities in a peace talk.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I shall reserve my judgement until I see a build, from this month, in action.