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Tech Tree Revisions

That's a really good image. Here's my cutting down to an icon. I put a little more space around the head. I don't think it looks good with too much of the crowd included either.

rhetoric4.png
 
I'm somewhat distracted by the random arm sticking up. Perhaps focusing on the orator more centrally will improve the image?
 
The lack of arm is definitely better. I still think a slightly more zoomed-in image might be even better though.
 
I think it's fine. I tried removing the arm myself and it didn't seem to come out right.
 
Here is my current working version of the Ancient/Classical Eras for remapping. All the XML is in place, so the prerequisites are there. Also, the columns are where I want them to be.

ancientclassical.png

What's currently not working are 3 techs with no inbound arrows:
  • Code of Laws
  • Philosophy
  • Drama
and 9 overrides required:
  • Pottery [Agriculture/Fishing]
  • Weaving [Animal Husbandry]
  • Stargazing [Sailing/Tradition]
  • Herbalism [Agriculture]
  • Trade [Pottery/Sailing]
  • Priesthood [Stargazing]
  • Warfare [Horseback Riding]
  • Mathematics [Stargazing/Trade]
  • Ancient Medicine [Meditation]
Some of these, especially Weaving (AH would be a backwards arrow) and Mathematics (OR prerequisites buried deeper in the tree), I don't think are possible to pull out.
 
Help me understand what's logically different from the decisions I based post #884's solutions on. Backward reading the picture is a little hard.

I also have medieval era graphs that are as valid now as they were then, which more evenly utilize vertical space and should be sufficient to home Philosophy on something. I'll point out again that the new logics for Ancient can be an enabling force for homing Drama, because of Athletics-Aesthetics having room. I do see Ancient Medicine has changed its logic... to something. Again, can't be sure, since your python script erases some of the necessity icons.

I'll accept the XML without annotation by PM if you want.
 
Here's a ZIP of the current CIV4TechInfos.xml file. It compresses really well. I also noticed I was missing the mandatory link from Agriculture to Crafting (TECH_WOODWORKING).

EDIT: I think the major change is that The Wheel is moved up to column 4. Its prerequisites are now Animal Husbandry + Crafting. So it's a little further along, but it gives you immediate Roads and their 1/2-cost-per-tile movement, and immediate Chariots with Horse instead of waiting for Warfare.
 

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K, I have one and am still working right now. I'll put it here, and also ask you... quick question, what does the backwards arrow look like?
noHusbSculpTrad.jpg

edit: The problem now is GridX 4. It must contain 5 techs, and 4 distinct lines for Mythology, Trade, Bronzeworking/Masonry, and CoL/Priesthood. But the ability of those last two to share a line is only theoretical, and cannot actually be enjoyed for CoL, because nothing actually belongs in the 'space' left of Code of Laws. Therefore, Pottery->Sculpture does not fit.

Still working

That theoretical limit really makes me sour about Stargazing:
stargazingsux.jpg
 
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We can move Community forward one column. Ancient-2 is 9 techs, so I want it split 4/5, but the 5 can be the expensive techs in column 3 and the 4 can be the cheap techs in column 2. I think Herbalism/Stargazing/Weaving are the weakest 3 techs and need to be in column 2, and Animal Husbandry/Crafting/Mining are the strong techs that need to be in column 3. Pottery is the other tech that I want in column 2. Tradition and Community can go either way, so putting them in column 3 probably slows down the Ancient Era by another touch but it shouldn't be noticeable except at the longest scales.
 
Okay, that makes the space beside CoL/Trade useable because Community arrow goes under it. Then Wheel or Archery can fit in there. Just a minute...

HOHO Wait Ethics can draw from Code of Laws? I didn't see that. Oh that's helpful. Priesthood can move, and pick up... huh. Working...
 
Code of Laws is meant to be a major chokepoint for the Ancient Era. It's one path to Writing and required for Ethics, Slavery, Warfare and Monarchy. I see it as the tech that marks the point where the VERY early game of mere survival ends and the early game of building begins.
 
Okay apparently I was tripping about the Community move. The best that gives is THIS, which is trading a lot just for the benefit of explicating Sculpture: obsolete
Sculpture.jpg

However, I kept working, and I saw something is possible if I flip Ancient upside-down:
flipfortrade.jpg

Both are still maddening and I'm not ready to say I'm done yet. It's strange. The math says I should theoretically be able to do more than I actually can. Pottery can get to Sculpture... but it can't FIT on the row it has to share. Similar troubles for Agriculture. Horseback Riding looks like it can make it to Warfare, but there's much less jiggle on this tree overall. Maddening.

edit: You can almost tell a joke with this one putting Ethics right beside Slavery. But the arrows are cramped. Valid, but a definite eyesore:
almostajoke.jpg

This one trades explicit Priesthood for explicit Pottery. Both this and the previous one are improvements to the first image in this post:
HerbforPottWarf.jpg

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All of that seems final to me. But I'm editing this post to say I'll be busy with other engagements for at least the next week, probably two weeks, so there will be no progress on this front.
 
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There is one other tech that I'm considering moving, and that is Fusion.

The two things I think about Fusion are that it's currently farther off than its current placement at Transhuman-2 would suggest, and that the Fusion Power Plant dominates all other power plants to the point where there isn't any room for cool early Transhuman Era power plants. So this is what I was considering:
  • Make Superstrong Alloys a prerequisite for Fusion. This moves Fusion up to Transhuman-4. Moving up Fusion also pushes Planetary Economics up to Transhuman-5.
  • Make Fusion a prerequisite for Warmachines. This moves Warmachines up to Transhuman-5, and Advanced Warmachines up to Transhuman-6. Transhuman-6 is the last level before Future Tech.
  • Also, replace the Megastructure Engineering prerequisite in Advanced Warmachines with Shielding. This seems to fit a little better.
The one problem I see with this is that moving up Fusion really hurts Controlled Plasma. Controlled Plasma gives two things: the Plasma Armor and the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor. The Plasma Armor is actually at a good placement point. The previous tank is the Modern Armor which is mid-Modern Era (Composites + Robotics), so an early Transhuman Era upgrade makes some sense. The ITER would be very hurt. As I see it, there is tension in whether or not to go for the ITER while researching Fusion, but if there is a lot of space between the two techs then that tension is lost.
 
I am going to have to do some more trick-shuffling. Trimming down as many military units as possible to a single tech prerequisite is leading to a couple of techs slipping into the "red zone" of viability.

First is Military Science. Removing the Ironclad and Iron Frigate from this tech leaves it with a trick count of only 2: the Military Academy (requiring a Great General to build) and the Commando/Blitz promotions. This is not a good thing. I think the problem here is the amount of overlap between Military Science/Military Tradition/Grand War.

I could make a case of moving any of the following to Military Science:
  • Light Cavalry. I originally assigned this unit to Military Tradition to give MT one unit of its own. Its other units (Cavalry, Elephant Cavalry) required both MT and Rifling. Now that Rifling is Industrial Era, MT was redundant. Moving the Light Cav up to Military Science consolidates the final round of Mounted units all in the Industrial Era.
  • Junta. I want to distinguish government by professional soldiers from government by the merely biggest and strongest -- that's Warlords. Military juntas seem to fairly modern so an Industrial Era placement might be better.
  • Volunteer Army. The all-volunteer army, like the Junta, seems to be a fairly modern concept. An army of long-term officers mixed with recent conscripts falls under Standing Army. The primary game effect of Volunteer Army is its starting +3 XP, making it the easiest path to 5 XP and thus 2 promotions when coupled with a +2 XP military building (Garrison), so it does need to be somewhere before the Military Base. Putting VA after Military Tradition also makes Brandenburg Gate's +1 XP more meaningful, as it + Warrior Caste/Mercenaries + Garrison gives 5 XP.
I think what I am going to do here is move the Light Cavalry, the Volunteer Army civic, and the Recruiting Center. That will give Military Science a healthy 5 tricks. Junta can stay with Military Tradition.

Second is Robotics. The problem here is that three units require both Robotics and Stealth: Stealth Bomber, Stealth Destroyer, and Nighthawk. I also want to split off Modern Armor.

The only thing I can think of to do here is to move the Great Engineer from Seismology to Robotics. Seismology has enough tricks to spare one. I contemplated moving Technocracy but I don't think I want to make that available earlier.
 
I really think the one where you flip the Ancient tree could be the best one. I mean, it gets Priesthood, Herbalism, Husbandry, AND Warfare (see attached rev). Even leaving Trade on its own is kind of a plus, because techs with no arrows out of them will provoke curiosity to investigate the details screen. Trade can never have everything visually represented.

I'll remind you Medieval is fortunately highly flexible, able to completely twist around to isolate the flip to the tree root.

At the least, I can now say the attached image is the best you're gonna get under the idea of pulling Trade off Writing:
FlipEverything.jpg
And you don't have to put Community off the intended GridX = 2.

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My other favorite is the third image from before:
AtLeastWeHaveWriting.jpg
Trade draws from its Community prereq, which has to meet its successors from GridX=3. The upshot is you have Writing.
 
And one more idea for the Tech Tree: I want to make Automated Vehicles a requirement for Androids. Right now, the thread Cyberwarfare - Automated Vehicles - Skyroads - Orbital Flight - Space Colonies/Weather Control is a bit loose. I want to tighten it up a little and especially make Cyberwarfare/Automated Vehicles a prerequisite for Planetary Economics and the Omnifactory.
 
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