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Tech Tree thoughts?

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall of the Greek World' started by Arkaeyn, Sep 24, 2009.

  1. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Here's the wiki of a tech tree: http://rhye.civfanatics.net/wiki/index.php?title=Tech_Tree. The fourth message in this thread has a simpler list of updates to the tech tree.





    ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
     
  2. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    I think that the tree will need to be expanded, but not for the sake of it.
    Every tech should offer something. Wonders, units above all. I believe we should think of what units and wonders we want to add, and later placing them where we want. For instance: we might add quadrireme: where?
    However, post here your ideas, or even your own trees. Feel free to open a units thread too.
     
  3. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Here's a list of the RFC techs through the eras this should be covering:

    Fishing
    Hunting
    The Wheel
    Agriculture
    Mysticism
    Mining

    Sailing
    Pottery
    Animal Husbandry
    Archery
    Meditation
    Polytheism
    Masonry

    Horseback Riding
    Priesthood
    Monotheism
    Bronze Working

    Writing
    Metal Casting
    Iron Working

    Aesthetics
    Mathematics
    Alphabet
    Monarchy
    Compass

    Literature
    Calendar
    Construction
    Currency
    Machinery



    that's 30, and takes us to the point of the medieval spawns, roughly turn 180 in RFC. The Greek World mod is scheduled to go almost double that, so with that as a guideline, we may want twice as many techs (although somewhat more or somewhat less wouldn't be a problem, as the tech rate can be altered.)
     
  4. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    This message is for the potential tree to use. Legend: italics mean that this is a new tech. underline means that this is a changed or simply renamed tech. greyed out means that a tech has been deleted. * means that a tech is currently an end-point and doesn't allow further techs (and isn't in the final tier).



    Fishing
    Hunting
    The Wheel
    Agriculture
    Mysticism
    Mining

    Sailing
    Pottery
    Animal Husbandry
    Archery
    Mythology
    Polytheism
    Masonry
    Trade
    Logging
    Herbalism

    Horseback Riding
    Priesthood
    Monotheism
    Bronze Working
    Storytelling
    Code of Laws
    Amphora*

    Writing
    Metal Casing
    Iron Working
    Philosophy
    Citizenship
    Military Science
    Tyranny

    Aesthetics
    Mathematics
    Alphabet
    Democracy
    Compass
    Aristocracy
    Naval Warfare*
    Medicine*
    Education*

    Standing Army
    Republicanism
    Literature
    Calendar
    Construction
    Currency
    Machinery
    Music
    Drama


    Currently 45
     
  5. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Here are six techs which occur after the ancient, classical, or early medieval era in RFC, but also had impact in the era of the Greek World mod:

    Music
    Democracy
    Philosophy
    Drama
    Code of Laws
    Education
     
  6. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    And Medicine and Military Science too. I disagree with Meditation. I have renamed it Mythology.
    We need more naval techs.
     
  7. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

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    Maybe something like the use of sea currents, something about ships that can transport goods better, something about minor colonies, and maybe something like Fishing Fleets.
    I think CIV currently really neglects in the ancient and classical era the importance of the sea outside of war, especially in Trading and colonizing in the classical era which was a huge aspect of the sea (a civ like Phoenicia for example relied heavily on those things).
     
  8. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    I also think that Machinery isn't a good fit for this mod, where the other early medieval techs are. I'm putting Democracy on the same level as Monarchy, which for the purposes of the mod, I'm renaming Tyranny (although Monarchy could exist as well, but would need some Civic thinking to differentiate it from Tyranny.)
     
  9. Neonanocyborgasm

    Neonanocyborgasm Chieftain

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    If we are to make an accurate tech tree, let it at least reflect the technological progress of antiquity. For example, Greek theater evolved from a religious festival, so Drama should descend from a religious tech.
     
  10. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    more thoughts:

    Along with Tyranny and Democracy, the third major government type in Greece was the Oligarchy. Combine that with Republicanism and Imperium and we have six governmental civics. Huzzah! I think Imperium should go with a tech that I'm calling Standing Army. Standing Army represents the Marian Reforms of the Roman military, and would also allow for an advanced swordsman unit. (this also means it's time for a Civics thread)

    Until we can think of a name for the tech that gives us Quinquiremes, I'm adding it as Naval Warfare.

    Another good technology would be Storytelling. This leads to the Heroic Epic national wonder. Gilgamesh, the Iliad, you're in!

    Finally, if we have an advanced infantry unit, we also need an advanced cavalry unit. For now, I believe that this should be a heavy cavalry recruitable with an Aristocracy tech.



    EDIT: Not sure why I thought there were six civics. Going to have to decide on narrowing one of these down. Probably going to be Oligarchy
     
  11. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Nano, that's probably good, though I'm kind of avoiding the religious techs for the moment, as they're attached to the religions thread.

    MORE CHANGES:

    I'm also suggesting a tech called Trade to help bridge the monetary gap until Currency, which is now an end-game tech.

    Code of Laws and Philosophy need to be much earlier up the tree. So here goes:

    The Wheel leads to Trade. Trade leads to Code of Laws and eventually Currency. Code of Laws requires Trade and Pottery. It leads to Philosophy and Democracy and Tyranny. Philosophy also requires Mysticism, and leads to Aesthetics. Aesthetics is now a jumping-off point for Literature (with Polytheism), Music (with Mathematics), and Drama (with Storytelling).


    I'm adding Theology not as a tech I want to have with that name, but as a placeholder for the tech that founds Xtianity. I also think it should require Alphabet instead of Writing, so as to avoid Oracle-based Xtianity-bombs.

    I've also added Requirements and Leads to on all the techs in the wiki, which now functions as kind of a visual tech tree. Better than this one: http://rhye.civfanatics.net/wiki/index.php?title=Tech_Tree

    Can we change Mysticism back to Ceremonial Burial? Or re-add CB?


    EDIT:

    Hoo lawd! This is kind of fun. Like a puzzle. I tried to connect all the techs we've put into the mod with effects. This meant: Naval Warfare requires Compass. Standing Army requires Iron Working and Democracy or Tyranny.

    This led me to something of a dilemma with Aristocracy and Republicanism. I solved this with Citizenship which should also lead to a civic, probably Legal. Alone it leads to Republicanism, and with Horseback Riding it can get Aristocracy.

    The only tech in the wiki right now without a full set of pre-reqs is Advanced Archery, but I'm okay with that.
     
  12. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    I've added some changes.

    Are we sure we want to keep Compass? Was there any compass at that time? What about a replacement with a oar-related tech?
     
  13. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    cursory research says yes, Compass bad. It existed in China but not Europe or the Middle East until much later.
     
  14. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Some more changes:

    a Ram unit was suggested as a pre-catapult siege weapon. Where to put it? I added a Logging tech, which requires Hunting and Mining. It's also a pre-req for Mathematics, and when trees can be chopped (duh)

    Added Herbalism with a pre-req of Agriculture or Hunting. Herbalism, with Philosophy, now leads to Medicine.

    Eliminated Compass. Now, Naval Warfare requires Military Science and Sailing.

    Military Science now allows for the so-called advanced archer unit, the Peltast (javelineers). With Metal Casing, it also can create the advanced spearman unit, the Hoplite.
     
  15. Heathcliff

    Heathcliff Chieftain

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    Some ideas of new technologies, units, wonders and buildings might be gotten from the Rise of Mankind mod, which features 3-4 times more of everything compared to vanilla civ.
     
  16. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    I have now added descriptions of what each does in allowing buildings, units, etc, to the wiki, with links to those units/buildings/etc, although the text in those boxes is non-existent. I generally ignored "Founding Religion," though.

    Several wonders are going to need to be re-examined, of course. This just helped to demonstrate that.
     
  17. Steb

    Steb Chieftain

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    Some suggested changes:

    Literature to require storytelling
    Drama to require only Aesthetics, not Storytelling (or it's the same as Literature)
    Astronomy to require only Calendar (which already includes math and sailing)
    Democracy not to require Code of Laws, which is already needed for Citizenship
    New tech: cartography or map making; requires sailing, leads to... Astronomy?; extends the naval line.


    We need more early Medieval tech or something, because right now even the last techs in our tree were known by the 5th century BC (currency, democracy, calendar, astronomy, education, drama, medicine...).
     
  18. scratzin

    scratzin Chieftain

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    Maybe a black-figure and red-figure pottery tech after pottery?

    I guess it would unlock a potter building that has +1 :culture: and +25% :gold:


    My vote is that the globe theatre ( no :mad: in a city) is replaced by the Theater of Asklepios at Epidauros


    National epic replaced with Epicurean school?



    Also, me thinks more philosophy related techs should be added
     
  19. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Most of the early medieval techs in Civ4/RFC were after the scope of this mod, as I recall. That may be tougher.
     
  20. Steb

    Steb Chieftain

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    The problem is that unlike RFC or RFC:E, the mod ends in a time where there was not much advancement... We really need a solution; I don't want to see Athens researching Philosophy in 450 AD. On the other hand, civs like the Celts are likely to be way less advanced even by the end of the mod.

    An idea for an Athenian UHV: be the first to complete the tech tree?
     

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