Temple of Artemis :(

[SVAN]

Dear fellow players,
Playing on Conquest, Huge random map, Emperor level, random civ (got English), I was able to build a Temple of Artemis first time ever in my experience and was rather happy about it. Five turns later my borders have virtually exploded all at once. However, age of this wander is short: soon enough Education was discovered and Temple of Artemis have became obsolete... To my terror all the free temples have disappeared from my cities!!! That was something unique in my experience. I sort of expected that from now on I would have to build temples in remote cities, but could keep ones which were already built! But no, they all are gone (except ones which were built before).
Since for a random map I have quite a lack of resources and luxuries (5 wines, 1 fur, 3 iron, 1 saltpeter for #1 size civ - and that is it for middle ages now being almost finished! I make my living by selling iron to remote civs for real good price!!!), I was quite disappointed: I have to build temples yet again to get some culture and happiness, and that takes ages... And my luxury expense bar was 30-40% until I was able to finish JS Bach Cathedral (had to choose between it and Adam Smith)...
So, apparently Temple of Artemis is most useless Great Wander ever? Perhaps, apart from the Colossus? Its time is short-living, and when it's effect disappears half of my population goes to disaster! Why?.. Oh, why?..

By the way, in order not to start a new thread, I'll ask it here: can English get a Golden Age when their UU ("Man-of-War") kills a Pirate ship (which is of hidden nationality)??? I have no idea (never played English, except in Napoleonic scenario), and now worry.
Best regards,
SVAN

 

[azzaman333]

The Oracle is the most useless great wonder ever. ToA should only be built if you have an SGL. If you can steal it from the AI, thats great. They waste 500 sheilds while you spend the same amount of time building 500 shields worth of military. And the Colossus is definately not useless. For 200 shields, you get a wonder that gives extra gold until you learn flight. Add on the Tourist money and it becomes a big income wonder.

 

[thetrooper]

The Colossus useless? I beg your pardon! Cheap, lasts almost forever and fuels your research...

ToA is useless though, I built it once (my first C3C game).

No GA for sinking Privateers.

 

[TruePurple]

[tab]All wonders that give "free structures", when they expire or you lose them... you lose the "free structures" as well.

[tab]If you don't want riots when it expires, when you get the tech that causes it to expire (education) click on your adviser (his image) when he asks you what you want to research next. Go over to the domestic adviser and slide up your lux till your cities don't riot. You can also go inside of those cities through domestic adviser to assign specs to prevent riot.

[tab]You don't have to pay upkeep for structures you get for free from a wonder (including ones you have already built). Further more you keep all culture you have accumulated when you had the wonder. So it wasn't a total waste. Especially if your trying for a culture win. Also thats a tourist attraction wonder, If your able to build those kind of wonders early in the game it pays off big latter on (14 commerce bonus for the city, this commerce bonus is multiplied by libraries, markets, and such) Often its a good idea to build science doubler wonders in the same city so all that tourist money is doubled for science production. (unless this city really has poor commerce verses other cities, but 14 is a big bonus, though you don't get it till latter on)

[tab]Granted the temple of Artemas might not be one of the best wonders out there, but it certainly wasn't a waste. Especially compared to other wonders, like the mausoleum. (though on the upside it never expires and is also a tourist wonder, but thats about the only reason to build it, maybe it should cost 160 shield, price of cathedral, not 200)

 

[vmxa]

I would never build the ToA, but I would be happy to have the Colossus, very happy. Unfortunely you almost never get it on Sid. I only managed it once and it was fluke.

You already got the border boost for the free temples in most cases, so no need to worry about that. I doubt that one happy face is going to make or break the game, so I would not be in a rush to build temples in most towns.

I would rather find someones lux and annex that to my empire. Use the shields and time that would be needed for the tmples to make troops or cannons or whatever I could.

Don't lnow about the UU, but I would think it wil not trigger.

 

[gunkulator]

In the Rise of Rome Conquest, Temple of Artemis is one of the best wonders to build because the easiest win is via domination and the wonder doesn't expire. For the epic game though, it's a complete waste of shields.

 

[jb1964]

I have found the Mausoleum-OM a bit useful. Once when limited in luxes I had a capitol w/ huge growth potential that certainly benefited from MOM. After expansion was well in hand, and moved to other growth cities, I added MOM to the capitol and used the happiness to turn this into a big production city while keeping entertainment low and the population in the remaining cities in check.

I personally like the Hanging Gardens and Bach's. I'm just a happy kinda guy.

 

[Rustwork]

ToA can be the best wonder if going for 100k victory. by stopping before education it can dominate.

 

[DBear]

Sinking a privateer with a Manowar DOES trigger the GA. I've done it. And I don't even try for the ToA--way too expensive for the benefit.

 

[BCLG100]

I dont generally build it if im honest.

 

[Chieftess]

The ToA is great if you're a warmonger, and don't want to build temples for the early part of the game while focusing on military. You can even expand city borders while they're still resisting. But, yes, it does go obsolete in the middle ages - that's intended.

 

[vmxa]

Any AA wonder has to be tempered by the level and map settings as well as the victory conditions.

If you are gong to play at the higher levels, you are not going to be able to get much in the way of wonders and I would not think ToA would be the one to shoot for.

You will have some real issues going for 100K and will probably be better off going for domination or SS at deity and sid. DG is a hard call, could go either way.

If we are talking about Monarch or less, build any wonder that makes you happy. I just think that AA wonders are best talked about in context of the game level and settings.

I read a fair number of post that speak of always going for things like the Pyramids. I know right off they are not playing at the higher levels or that is not an option or at least not a winning option.

The pyramid is not a good option for any island maps either, even at a low level. It is not a good option for some civs as it could either trigger a GA or lead to it.

 

[TimBentley]

ToA isn't worth 500 shields, but it's nice to capture. It would be interesting to note how many settler builds it has saved me in my current game, though (my first opponent happened to have it).

 

[gunkulator]

500 shields builds 8 real Temples that never expire, 16 if religious. Do you even have that many core cities in the AA?

 

[Desertsnow]

I don't play Conquests much (I actually usually prefer PTW), but when I do I don't build Temple of Artemis unless I have the 100k culture victory specifically in mind from the get-go. I don't know about it when going for domination, as Chieftess suggested, but then, my warmongering skill still leaves a bit to be desired. (On the other hand, I'm actually doing well in a game I've had on hold for a while, under a dogpile--wish me luck as I'll need it.) In the Ancient era I usually go for Pyramids (free granaries = growth) or Colossus or Great Library, though I imagine I'll have to do without most these if I'm to move up to Emporer or better, unless at least I can get my war skills up to snuff.

 

[TruePurple]

@gunkulator
You sure your not thinking of civ4? Thats not how it works with civ3.

The ToA might not be worth its cost, 100 more then pyramid. Even though the pyramid never expires but the ToA does. Even though graineries are usually more important at first. Its baffling. But if you have a shot at a ToA build but nothing else (or the ToA is by far your best shot) and you don't have urgant growth or war to attend to... It might be worth it. Especially if your going for cultural win. Thats alot of ifs though. The odds are you'd never build one in any demigod+ game.

 

[gunkulator]

@gunkulator
You sure your not thinking of civ4? Thats not how it works with civ3.

Um, how what doesn't work?

But if you have a shot at a ToA build but nothing else (or the ToA is by far your best shot) and you don't have urgant growth or war to attend to... It might be worth it. Especially if your going for cultural win.

For a 20K game, maybe, although I think there are better culture/shield deals than ToA. For 100k, absolutely not. You'll lose out on the doubling of the temple's culture after 1000 years once you get to education.

500 shields builds 16 horsemen or swords which contribute far more to a win than ToA ever will.