Term 1 - Commander of the Armed Forces

[GenMarshall]

@Thank you for bringing that to my attention and I have changed the instructions

@Ali - Ill look into the possibilities of having sub offices in this department .

 

[Bianezzi]

I suggest another department of extreme importance.

As you all know there's a discussion in the Foreign Affairs thread about demands. My opinion is that demands are always a tactical decision which must pass through military analysis before met/conflicted.

Thus, there are other international questions which must be worked along both with the Military and Diplomatic commands, so I suggest having a Department of Military Consulting within the Military Command, working with the Foreign Affairs office.

What do you think?

 

[ali]

yep the Defence Material Organisation (DMO) will handle such matters as well in its aims...if it gets approved which I strongly advise that it does and would like Civ General to note that I greatly see the importance of the two mentioned sub-deptments to begin operating

 

[mad-bax]

Consul CivGeneral:

Having inspected the state of the nation after 800 years of existence I feel I must voice my concern at your lack of action at this time.

Our newly met adversary by the name of Ghandi had but a single established settlement. He is therefore still building, or has just completed and is now building a spearman escort for his first settler. His armed forces consist of only 6 warriors therefore. Our brave warrior George is located next to Ghandis only two workers and is 10 turns from our own great capital. Ghandi has learned pottery and bronze working. Therefore he has probably met another civilisation with expansionist trait which in turn would mean that we should be able to trade for BW soon.

Such an opportunity is too great to allow to slip through our fingers whilst you trouble yourself with the (albeit onerous) task of establishing your beaurocracy.

Please consider declaration of war with Ghandi before the start of the next turn, capturing the workers in the process. Retreat George to Camelot and lead Ghandis foolish warriors to suicide on our prospective spear. After several of his warriors are dead he will accept peace with us and will likely turn over the newly founded town he will build in the meantime. By turn 25 you have the opportunity to win this game, and yet you discuss ordering paper clips and envelopes.

 

[mad-bax]

Having inspected the save for a second time I must ammend a mistake in my previous communication with the consul. It appears that the Indians do not in fact know Bronze working, which would increase the level of risk in my proposed strategy. I would certainly still implement it, but there may now be a case for caution.

I apologise for my error.

 

[Bianezzi]

How sure can we be that the Indians will give in their newly established city?

 

[mad-bax]

I'm not sure. I only know from experience that a Civ will give up a size 1 cultureless city fairly easily to get out of a war. Since Ghandi will keep at least 2 defenders in Delhi we can expect to defend against 4, maybe 5 warriors. If we have a spear and a warrior in Camelot then the spear wins two battles and auto-promotes. Depending on the HP's left then the remaining warriors will either attack, fortify or pillage. However, having captured 2 workers, and destroyed at least a third and maybe half the Indian armed forces - plus the fact that it is our first war with them, they will talk. Workerless they are dead anyway. If we take a city, then happy days - but it is not the point of the war, just the spoils.

The risk is that without BW we will need 3 warriors minimum and we probably won't get the auto-promote for two wins in a turn. The likelihood of all 5 warriors attacking the city and sacking it are increased. My judgement is that there is an expansionist civ that we will meet in the ten turns it will take Ghandi to get to Camelot, and that in that time we may even meet other civs. We have enough gold and gpt to buy BW straight up. We will get BW in time therefore. We probably need to change the current warrior build to a spear pre-build however.

I don't want to be the cause of the quickest ever DG defeat. But I really don't want to be stuck with playing the percentages either.

 

[MOTH]

I support the idea of a quick war against India.

 

[Bianezzi]

It's really a great responsability, mad-bax.

And a risk I'd avoid right now. You all have good points, but there's a considerable chance Camelot might be sacked. On the other hand, this is a push we'll regret losing in the near future.

Let the generals decide.

 

[blackheart]

The AI has the amazing ability of springing 2358623962938 warriors to life the moment we declare war. So unless we surprise attack them, or declare war while George W. Bush is right next to their city (both of which will hurt us a LOT diplomatically), there's no chance we would win with one warrior.

 

[MOTH]

The AI has the amazing ability of springing 2358623962938 warriors to life the moment we declare war. So unless we surprise attack them, or declare war while George W. Bush is right next to their city (both of which will hurt us a LOT diplomatically), there's no chance we would win with one warrior.

We are currently outside of their borders and adjacent to two workers. We can declare war and immediately capture the workers. So, there is no diplomatic hit. We are not going to actually try and capture their city. We are going to run back to Camelot with our new workforce and wait for the warrior rush.

 

[blackheart]

We are currently outside of their borders and adjacent to two workers. We can declare war and immediately capture the workers. So, there is no diplomatic hit. We are not going to actually try and capture their city. We are going to run back to Camelot with our new workforce and wait for the warrior rush.

At this difficulty level the AI gets bonuses to their starting units, so they have more troops than us. Unless we can pump out a lot more warriors this war is going to be ugly.

 

[GenMarshall]

At this difficulty level the AI gets bonuses to their starting units, so they have more troops than us. Unless we can pump out a lot more warriors this war is going to be ugly.

I would agree with blackheart on this one. Another thing is that we should do is to scout their territory first before we jump into a war that we cannot win.

 

[mad-bax]

Elsewhere I have set out my reasoning and the risks involved. To date the only counters to my proposal have been emotionally based and best characterised by "I'm scared of the AI"

At emperor level the AI gets 4 attackers and 2 defenders. For India this means 6 warriors. India cannot have more, since it has not built a second city yet and therefore is yet to finish its first build which is always a settler, or has just finished this build.

The AI will not leave its cities undefended, and its capital will have 2 defenders. We will be unlikely to see more than 4 or 5 warriors attack Camelot. If we have a spear in the city the spear will autopromote after 2 wins. Depending on the number of HP left it is therefore unlikely that India will attack with its third warrior and certainly not with its fourth. Therefore our actual risk is almost zero.

 

[YNCS]

Elsewhere I have set out my reasoning and the risks involved. To date the only counters to my proposal have been emotionally based and best characterised by "I'm scared of the AI"

My objections to a war with the Indians are:

1. Right now we have 1½ warriors. That's not the overwhelming force I'd like to have fighting a war.
2. Our build queue is pretty well set for the next 30 or so turns. No more attackers or defenders are scheduled to be built until after we finish the grainary.
3. We don't have Bronze Working so we can't build any spearmen.
4. Let's get some more cities built before we start beating our hairy chests at the neighbors.

Nope, nothing there about "I'm scared of the AI."

 

[GenMarshall]

My objections to a war with the Indians are:

1. Right now we have 1½ warriors. That's not the overwhelming force I'd like to have fighting a war.
2. Our build queue is pretty well set for the next 30 or so turns. No more attackers or defenders are scheduled to be built until after we finish the grainary.
3. We don't have Bronze Working so we can't build any spearmen.
4. Let's get some more cities built before we start beating our hairy chests at the neighbors.

Nope, nothing there about "I'm scared of the AI."

YNCS has hit the nail (or shall I say, nails) on the head on why I feel that we should not go to war against the Indians at this time.

 

[Bertie]

If we declare war on India I don’t think we have to change our build queue at all. We can grab India’s workers, retreat towards Camelot, and I believe before India threatens Camelot we’ll be able to sue for a (hopefully profitable) peace. Only if India actually threatens Camelot – a remote possibility, I believe – will we have to change our build queue to produce a defender. In that case we’ll have plenty of time to take action. (And given good tides and a favorable wind for our curragh, by that time we should have discovered a civ that has learned Bronze Working and is willing to trade it to us.)

As I said in TimBentley’s “Early Warfare” thread, I prefer to avoid early warfare and instead build my civilization. But mad-bax has made an extremely good case for why war with India should be considered. I think we should declare war on Gandhi.

 

[YNCS]

II believe before India threatens Camelot we’ll be able to sue for a (hopefully profitable) peace. Only if India actually threatens Camelot – a remote possibility, I believe – will we have to change our build queue to produce a defender. In that case we’ll have plenty of time to take action.

We'll also not build any more cities.

 

[ali]

i support this war it would help the domestics and economy etc

 

[Bianezzi]

I said "Let the generals decide".


Wll, the Commander of the Armed Forces has spoken. I'm with him.


PS.: I'm also scared of the AI.