Term 2 External Consulate - Distant wars.

[mad-bax]

We are now at war with Persia and Japan. You may be aware that the External Consulate is developing a strategy to reduce the AI tech rate as far as is possible. ! of the ways we considered doing this was through wars and a series of MA's between civs, and using China as a buffer against wars leaking into our neighbourhood.

An MA with China vs Persia will cost us Philosophy. We will get a handful of loose change back from this which should allow for more upgrades. Philosophy is not a monopoly tech.

The likely polls that will come out of this discussion are:-

Whether we agree in principle to signing MA's in order to prolong and complicate wars with distant nations in order to reduce the tech rate, and to ruin reputations where civs end the agreements early.

Whether we should establish more embassies now so that we can further complicate the dimplomatic arena - with more wars and more MA's.

Whether we should give up Philosophy to protect ourselves from Persian immortals.

Please contribute everyone. It's important.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Keep in mind with all these wars and MA: perhaps Republic is not the best government, but that's for domestic...

1. Yes, do sign MAs with civs. Spread them out so that there aren't 10 civs against 1 and it gets wiped out. I'll look at the save later.

2. A few embassies for nothern civs will do. One or two, and perhaps we want one with the Dutch, but we need gold for upgrades.

3. As long as Philo is NOT a monopoly tech, use it in trading, but NOT Construction, if it stays a monopoly.

 

[zyxy]

I assume Per & Jap declared on us; in that case we get war happiness, which is actually a plus for republic (but not for monarchy or despotism). We'll keep war happiness as long as we're not actually involved in these wars (i.e., no battles, no territory violations). This means we have no interest to stop these wars.

So we should sign alliances against these civs. Maya & Byzantium look strong (based on score) and make good candidates.

If Persia has iron hooked up (do we know?) then we need several allies against them: it would not be nice if Persia gobbled up China...

Come to think of it, we might sign up a few civs against Persia anyway; it does not hurt to reduce them to insignificance or knock them out completely: industrious+scientific+immortals is a dangerous combination.

Japan is less of a danger, but should also be allied against.

If philo is not a monopoly, I would rather sell that than use money. It can perhaps be used to buy several alliances. I would also use construction if needed: it will not be a monopoly for long.

 

[mad-bax]

I am in broad agreement with your post zyxy. Personally I would see how many MA's we can sign using Philosophy to pay. I would not give up construction just yet since it would fuel the tech rate.

I guess we need a poll to establish the principle of weaving a complex tangle of MA's amongst the AI, and if this is the will of the people a number of alternative proposals can be constructed to do that, which can be polled afterwards.

 

[Bertie]

Good post, zyxy; I agree with most of what you suggest. I’d like us to move towards establishing more embassies and agree we should sell Philosophy or trade it to enable MAs; and I’d even consider doing the same with Construction if we think we can use it to get most of the world fighting with each other. The goal of doing so would be to establish long-term animosities among our neighbors. I understand that trading Construction may not be the wisest course, but I don't think we should take it off the table.

Good point that the Mayans and Byzantines would make excellent candidates for allies. I'd particularly like to get the Byzantines involved in a war; they're advancing at a pretty quick clip and it'd be good to slow them down.

 

[classical_hero]

We should try and see all the possible alliances we could get against those nations. The longer we have the Ai at war, the better. This means that we can concentrate on either gaining a tech lead, or attacking one of our neighbours. If we play this right then we can gain alot from it. We need to make those nations pay for their foolishness.

 

[LeeT911]

I agree wholeheartedly with zyxy. And yes, Persia does have iron. (At least, according to the R&T Office they do).

 

[RegentMan]

If Persia has iron hooked up (do we know?)

Yes, Persia does have its iron hooked up.

It seems interesting to me that some citizens would hate to have us locked into a military alliance with the Dutch that would send their army to the other side of the continent, but are almost ready to hop on board with the idea of signing two or three other military alliances. I say let the wars last until they're ready to make peace. No blood spilled and no commitments.

 

[greekguy]

Don't ally with China. Persia will be able to kill them with immortals, and take away a valuable trading partner. Instead sign an MA with Maya. they can put a fight with their javelin throwers.

 

[RegentMan]

Don't ally with China. Persia will be able to kill them with immortals, and take away a valuable trading partner. Instead sign an MA with Maya. they can put a fight with their javelin throwers.

From my experiences, javelin throwers don't tangle too well with immortals either... huh? Huh?

The javelin thrower is a 2/2/1 replacement of the archer. It has a 1/3 chance of enslaving a unit into a worker upon victory. However, it costs 50% more than a regular archer. The Mayans will have less of them, therefore a military alliance with the Maya is a worse choice.

 

[greekguy]

From my experiences, javelin throwers don't tangle too well with immortals either... huh? Huh?

The javelin thrower is a 2/2/1 replacement of the archer. It has a 1/3 chance of enslaving a unit into a worker upon victory. However, it costs 50% more than a regular archer. The Mayans will have less of them, therefore a military alliance with the Maya is a worse choice.

it's better than not having a UU at all. also, the Maya are high on score so they should put up a good fight. it will at least lower the Persian tech rate.

 

[RegentMan]

it's better than not having a UU at all.

I don't know about that. If I'm being invaded by immortals and on the brink of extinction, I want my archers to cost 20 shields, not 30. Plus, I'll be using them for attack, not defense. Any that are left in the open are goners.

 

[greekguy]

I don't know about that. If I'm being invaded by immortals and on the brink of extinction, I want my archers to cost 20 shields, not 30. Plus, I'll be using them for attack, not defense. Any that are left in the open are goners.

perhaps, but the extra point of defense the javelin thrower gives could be very useful.

 

[blackheart]

Build a few galleys to patrol our waters and ignore the Persians altogether, too far away to do anything before they're willing to sign peace.

 

[vikingruler]

perhaps, but the extra point of defense the javelin thrower gives could be very useful.

the one defense point increase of the jt over the archer makes very little difference. the immortal has a 4 Attack, that can plow through archers or jt. plus if you attack with it, it's tied with the immortals 2 defense and won't win a lot. furthermore,if the jtdoes win and enslaves the immortal odds are that another immortal will come in, kill the jt and take the worker.

 

[greekguy]

even if the Mayans Javelins can't defeat the immortals, the Persians will have their tech pace slowed. either the mayans hold off the Persians and severely weaken them or the Persians kill the Mayans. no matter what happens we will have one less powerful AI to deal with.

 

[RegentMan]

If the Mayans are killed by the Persians, there'll be an angry AI with immortals running around occupying the space of two AIs. Not a very nice combo.

 

[blackheart]

even if the Mayans Javelins can't defeat the immortals, the Persians will have their tech pace slowed. either the mayans hold off the Persians and severely weaken them or the Persians kill the Mayans. no matter what happens we will have one less powerful AI to deal with.

Persians conquering Mayans = stronger Persians

 

[zyxy]

I agree with the posters above that one civ alone will not be able to contain Persia. We should ally with several civs versus Persia. Maya and Byzantines will cost us though, we can only pay with construction or gold -- they already have philosophy.

Personally I would give up construction to build alliances now, provided we can afford to get the embassies. The AI's like construction and will probably research it soon anyway.

 

[DaveShack]

I don't have access to a save right now or I'd post this myself. What resources does everyone have? That impacts the strategy a lot.