Term 2 External Consulate - Local Wars

[mad-bax]

The aims of any local wars have been set out by the External Consulate. Recent in-game developments make it prudent to revisit these war aims to ensure that they are still valid and acheivable.

This discussion thread is intended to answer the following questions.

1. In the light of recent developments should we go to war with India or the Dutch first?

2. Should we take cities from the Indians in a peace deal rather than tech?

3. Should we prolong the war vs Indians in order to gain more in a peace deal or wipe them out completely?

4. What is the longest acceptable delay for a government switch due to wars?
How long after learning our preferred goverment tech are we prepared to wait before switching?

The External Consulates considered view is that the only part of it's policy that should be revised is the aim of a future peace treaty with India. We should try to get one or two cities in the deal. The Tundra city is priority since we can protect it. There is another city in the East which is size 1, but that may prove difficult to defend.

Please contribute to this discussion.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

1. India, they only have 5 cities (ok, and one tundra with no production).

2. I would like to wipe them out. They only have 6 cities, and I don't want to take all five but one remaining capital and watch them flip.

3. I don't want to use a peace deal, but only prolong the war if we ARE NOT a Republic/Feudalism.

4. Until we have around 10 cities. We want to have enough cities so that unit support won't kill us.

 

[Bertie]

I’d still attack the Indians first. In our peace settlement with them, I’d push India for cities in addition to those we capture. They seem to be behind in tech so I’m not sure if they’d necessarily have anything that we’d want in a peace deal. The tundra city is ours anytime we choose to take it; but it might be wise to include that as one of the cities in the peace treaty simply so we don’t have to worry about an enemy behind our lines. I wouldn’t object to wiping out India, but it’d be easier to leave them with a token city or two. Also, the Dutch are our real target and the Indian war is just a prelude to that. The quicker we finish with them the sooner we can start our real work.

Before we switch governments I prefer that we conclude our initial wars with the Indians and Dutch (both civs will still exist, but will be greatly diminished in size and strength). I expect during the middle ages we’ll be at war almost constantly; but as long as we keep China happy and a buffer between us and the rest of the world, I expect our troops will be involved in little actual fighting unless we decide to send an invasion fleet somewhere. Under Republic we’ll experience war happiness. For this reason, and because it’s a more efficient and productive government than Monarchy, I still favor the Republic as our next form of government. However, managing war weariness under Republic involves some attention to detail, and if our DP receives conflicting turn instructions from different ministries, he may have difficulty taking the necessary steps to manage our civ’s mood. If we think this will be a problem, Monarchy might be a better choice for this game.

 

[RegentMan]

In the light of recent developments should we go to war with India or the Dutch first?
My personal opinion? The Dutch. They are the big daddies of the continent and will be hard to take out if we let them get their Swiss Mercenary.

Should we take cities from the Indians in a peace deal rather than tech?
Should we go to war with them, I have one thing to say: what peace?

Should we prolong the war vs Indians in order to gain more in a peace deal or wipe them out completely?
If we go to war with them, wipe them out completely. It won't be beneficial to have those demons at our back, ready to extract revenge when we move against the Dutch.

What is the longest acceptable delay for a government switch due to wars? How long after learning our preferred goverment tech are we prepared to wait before switching?
I would like to see a flip to monarchy between the two wars. We need to time our government discovery to the time that we want to revolt so that we can revolt twice and try to get a short anarchy (click "Big Picture," head to domestic, revolt, check how many turns, exit out, domestic will prompt you if you want to revolt, say yes/no depending on how long originial is, get (hopefully) shorter time).

 

[greekguy]

1. A war with the Dutch needs to be first. Swiss Mercenarys will be almost impossible to kill. The Dutch are the strongest civ on our sub-continent and must be destroyed.

2. No peace deal, when we go to war with India, we must wipe them out entirely. This way we can expand as much as we want Eastwards and we won't have a vengeful AI city-state next to us for the rest of the game.

3. Read answer to question 2.

4. I say we should severely weaken the Dutch and kill India before a gov. switch. Then we should switch to republic. Once we learn republic (should be after the wars), we should switch immediately.

 

[DaveShack]

1. A war with the Dutch needs to be first. Swiss Mercenarys will be almost impossible to kill. The Dutch are the strongest civ on our sub-continent and must be destroyed.

Well, Knights (in large numbers) can handle Muskets so they should be able to handle Swiss Mercs, but I agree that cutting them down to size before they get their UU is preferable.

 

[LeeT911]

I'm not sure about the Dutch tech level (haven't checked the save), but last I heard, we we're up Philosophy and Construction while they had Map Making (and HBR?). Before they get to Swiss Mercenaries, they need to research: Philosophy, Construction, Currency, Code of Laws, Polytheism, Feudalism. I have never seen an AI research a Middle Age tech before government switch, so they will have to research either Monarchy or Republic and then revolt. Granted, this is Emperor, so the computer gets fast revolution and research discounts, and the AI might trade, but I still think it gives us quite a few turns before we see any of their UUs.
Edit: After looking at the save, the tech situation seems a little more dismal. The Dutch have CoL and the French have Polytheism. If they know each other and a trade occurs, we may be seeing Swiss Mercs a lot sooner. We know Philo and Construction, even if they self-research they will get it quicker.


How is the Dutch treasury holding up? Will they be able to upgrade to Swiss Mercenaries even if they want to (which the AI usually doesn't for some reason)?

I think if we do a quick war with India (4-6 turns), we will still have time to turn around and whomp the Dutch a bit. All we really need from the Indians are Delhi and Bombay. Take pressure of Bentley, steal some silks. If we can pick up some towns in the peace deal that's nice, if not, we can just take them by force later.

 

[Furiey]

The important thing in the Dutch first camp is to deal with the Dutch before they get Swiss mercs all over the place. A short sharp war with the Indians first, getting the extra lux, reinforcing Bentley and the Iron, and possibly a couple of other cities as well will still allow us to the time to do so and allow the outlying Dutch cities time to grow so we can capture rather than raze them. Unless we are able to almost completely wipe out the Dutch we will not be able to deprive them of Iron as they have a source under one of their cities in the north. We cannot however afford to get in a long drawn out war with the Indians, and should be clear what we can do in the timescale before we start.

Indians first cities adjacent to our empire in the deal. We don't want distant ones that will just be a burden defensively.

 

[Provolution]

The sheer size of the Dutch economy suggests an early Dutch UU and a massive war when it takes place. Let us take out the Dutch together with the Indians, and then gobble up the Indians quickly prior to Chivalry afterwards (India we can handle later as Republic with leftover forces as we consolidate with China. Think Big.).