Term 5 - Office of the Judiciary - Beware of Flying Gavels

[Veera Anlai]

Office of the Judiciary - Term 5

This is the official thread for the Term 5 Judiciary Department. You can use this thread to post requests for Judicial Reviews, requests for Public Investigations, or to simply have questions answered about the rules, how they work, and what the Judiciary's positions are on the legality of various issues.
Note that if you wish to post a Public Investigation, please use the proper procedure as described in Section H of our Code of Standards.


The following is a list of referenced posts and links:
Term 4 Official Judiciary Thread
Judicial Log
Constitution of Fanatika (The Three Books)


Our current judiciary members are as follows:
Chief Justice - Veera Anlai
Public Defender - Shaitan
Judge Advocate - Naervod


In accordance with Article I of our Constitution, the current census is as follows:
Term 4 Active Census - 30
Term 4 Quorum Level - 15
Term 4 Full Census - 33

The active census (30) and quorum (15) are numbers normally used in polling for all issues from the simple up to, and including, changes to our Code of Laws.
The Full Census (33) is only used for constitutional amendments. To pass a constitutional amendment, half of the full census (17) must approve the measure, along with a 2/3 approval in the Senate.

The duties and responsibilities of the Judiciary are outlined in Section E of our Code of Laws.

And most important of all, our Judiciary exists to help our citizens avoid and resolve conflicts. If you ever have any legal questions, please feel free to ask, and don't hesitate to discuss any issues with us.

Veera Anlai
Chief Justice

 

[GenMarshall]

Congrats Veera on your election to Chief Justice .

I must *bump* this thread away from the term - 4 threads .

 

[naervod]

Congrats Veera. If two more Council Members vote yes in confirmation, I will be serving under you as JA again, so we will have the same judiciary as last term .

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Veera Anlai
Term 4 Active Census - 30
Term 4 Quorum Level - 15
Term 4 Full Census - 33

Are these the quorums for term 5?

 

[naervod]

Well its official, I am the new Judge Advocate (sort of new...)

 

[Octavian X]

EDIT: Nevermind

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

I would like a review to have this poll closed since it contridicts the poll that is/was trying to establish the same thing. Here is the other Poll that it contridicts here

 

[naervod]

Judge Advocate Opinion

I agree that one of the polls needs to be closed, but it is actually the one you say gets contradicted. The poll that was contradicted (by FortyJ) is the poll that should be closed as it was posted 48 minutes after the poll by donsig.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

the poll by forty is not the one that needs to be closed tho

 

[Shaitan]

@Fionn - First, the Judiciary does not close polls. Second, there is no rule against confusing or contradictory polls. Contact the pollsters and see if you can get one or the other to have their poll closed.

 

[Veera Anlai]

We had this problem earlier about contradicting or confusing polls, and the conclusion was that there was nothing to be done. It is up to the department head to determine which poll best represents the wishes of the people if such an event occurs.

 

[donsig]

As Governor of the Southwest, I formally request a Public Investigation of Vice-President Octavian X and Military Leader (General) Falcon02. The charges are unlawfully changing a governor's build queues, to wit, the build queues for the cities of Bremershaven, Civanatoria and New Falcon's Nest (in the Southwest Province) were changed from cavalry to musketmen. This was done by order of General Falcon and implemented by the VP, as DP, Octavian X. The General had no authority to over-ride the governor's queues since there were and are no enemy units in the Southwest Province. I do not request that either of these upstanding officials be punished, however I do wish to go ahead with the public investigation in order to avoid any illegal over-rides in the future.

I offer the following in evidence:

CoL: C.2G.7 (Military Department)

Can supercede a provincial build queue with military units or improvements during time of invasion.
Invasion is the presence of offensive troops belonging to a country we are at war with inside the borders of the province to be superceded.

1000 AD turn chat instruction thread.
This thread has the governor's queues, the saves from 1000 AD and 1010 AD as well as the chat log. An examination of the saves will show that no Indian, Babylonian or Persian units were or are in the Southwest Province.

Southwest Province thread. The first post in this thread contains a map of the Southwest Province.

Here is the excerpt from the chat log (edited):

[23:07] <@Falcon02> we need more muskets
[23:07] <+DX_Zoi> ya think?
[23:08] <@Octavian_X> then both Strum and hunt would be undefended
[23:09] <@Falcon02> so once the Pike gets to Strumandrang, send the Musket.... gonna take a while, but I don't wanna leave a city undefended now
[23:09] <@Octavian_X> I see
[23:09] <@Octavian_X> Waht about the musket outside serenity?
[23:12] <@Octavian_X> Shimonoseki musket?
[23:13] <@Falcon02> Tlax, NFN, Highlands, Strider's Haven, Civanatoria, Bremershaven, switch to Musket please
[23:13] <@Octavian_X> waste 6 sheilds in muskets?
[23:13] <@Falcon02> send it to Kyoto
[23:14] <@Falcon02> any which are gonna waste, don't switch

I request that the Judiciary act on this request in a timely manner since there is a short time between turn chats and the issues of over-rides may well be an important one for the upcoming chat.

Thank you,
donsig
Governor of the Southwest Province

 

[Cyc]

In a related issue, I've noticed that the build queue for Riga was ignored in last night's t/c. Riga was supposed to be changed to a Library, but was left on Musketman. No major damage was done, as either queue would take a long time to complete, allowing for a later change (if no rushing were involved). The fact remains, procedure was not followed.

Here is a link to The North Province Instructions.

 

[Goonie]

I do not believe that Octavian should be PIed. He was simply carrying out Falcons directions.

 

[Octavian X]

Governor donsig, surely you think no major damage was done. For one, the turn chat lasted a single turn. Second, the cities that were switched were in the process of building cavalry. General Falcon felt that the defense of the cities came before the possibility of capture. No cities lost already produced sheilds. Thirdly, that kind of thing tends to happen when there are just two people actively talking in a chat. Any sort of over riding council vote would've resulted affirmitively, since Falcon was the only council member preseint.

Also, Governor Cyc, Riga was purely my mistake. I was disconnected a few too many times, and likely though I had completed your province when in reality Riga was still left.

It's kind of weird, since I was came to this thread first when I got in knowing donsig had something to complain about...

 

[naervod]

I will open a PI thread soon. I want to wait to see donsig's reply.

Also, this term has been very quiet. Veera where have you been? The quorum levels are not fixed and the Judge Advocateposition says unfilled, even though I have held this position for almost three weeks now.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by naervod
I will open a PI thread soon. I want to wait to see donsig's reply.

I'm not sure what I should reply to. I'd like to see the PI go forward and we can discuss the charges there. It is up to the Judiciary to decide who shouold be PIed.

 

[naervod]

The Judge Advocate has determined that the Public Investigation shall be made against Falcon02 and Octavian X. Falcon02 provided the erroneous instructions and Octavian should have known better than to follow the instructions, especially since there were other valid instructions on the turn-chat thread. I will open two separate PI threads either tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

[Zarn]

I think the PI's are a joke. Even though they may techincally guilty, building a different military unit does not take any benefits away from those cities. It's obvious that the general would more likely know what unit to produce than a governor. The VP and the general are very good officials, and I personally think they made the right decision. I don't know why these PI's were even set up. If something like this can happen, then maybe we should start to question this law.

 

[Veera Anlai]

The quorum levels are correct as they are Naervod, but I apologize for not editing the post about you being JA previously. As you say, the term has been very quiet and I haven't been spending much time in the Judiciary thread.

I agree that there is a case against Falcon and Octavian, and I thank the Judge Advocae for taking the initiative in creating the PI thread. However, I don't see why the issue couldn't have been handled privately before being forced into the hands of the Judiciary. There was a valid reason for the military change, the change had little to no impact on upcoming items in the build queue, and the law violated is a minor technicality. A vote may have been taken for an official override, but with the only department leader present being Falcon, a vote in favor of the Queue changes would have been a foregone conclusion.
Donsig, please remember that a Public Investigation should be used as a *last* resort, not a first resort. PI's cause too much dissension and arguments in the community to be thrown about lightly. I'm tired of the Judiciary department being used as your personal complaint box.