Terra, and the New World

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

Hi everyone.
I was close to the point of posting here to ask if anyone knew any particular world type that would give what I want - exploratory-based maps, but I appear to have found it.
I found on other world generators that when it gave continents with islands, the islands were often interconnected, so that with a Galley you could pretty much travel the world. I didn't want that.
Terra - gives exactly what I want.
I was looking for a world generator that gives an Old World and a New World - where all of the Civs spawn in the Old World, and the New World remains completely unpopulated until it's first settled.
I also achieved this by modifying the Barbarian options in Legends of Revolutions.

I went looking for this world type because I myself am an avid explorer, and love the Era of Exploration.
However I found it rather pointless being a Civ like the Portuguese who get the Carrack, when the New World is already populated and thriving by the time I arrive - no land to settle, no resources to take.
So what's the point of exploring at all, if nothing is to be newly discovered?
I feel this is the problem with Continents-type maps - where it's really also a little boring to play too - with the maps lacking a dynamic feel to it - almost as if you can guess the shape of the continent based off of 5-10 tile-coasts.

So that's why I went looking for this map type, and I must say it's been tremendous fun so far;

Spoiler :

I felt so excited when I discovered the New World. I was worried that new Civs will have spawned there already or that another Old World Civ may have skirted their way around the Ice, but thankfully not.
There's literally a whole new world out there, and it's all mine to take. XD

I have my Old World war with the Ottomans wrapped up now too - so I'm off to conquer the New World before someone else does.

It just feels a whole lot more real and exciting this way - it keeps the land-grab aspect alive and well all throughout the game.

So if you're like me and are looking for an exploratory-type map, Terra is a great one to go for - along with Legends of Revolutions.


I made this thread out of happiness and eager to share this with someone but as an additional question for discussion - which map type is your favourite?
What sort of games do you enjoy? Archipelageo? Pangea? Continents?

I'll leave a poll for quick responses.

 

[Major Tom]

Have you tried Big and Small with islands wrapped in for The Great Lighthouse and sushi?

There is (was) a great article in waracademy about mapcreation. Unfortunately all screenshots and links are ruined.

 

[Antony]

Terra was the first ever map type I had played on, I really enjoyed it also.
On my first run it took me quite a long time to reach the new world. When I finally did it was heavily populated by barbarians and I believe two other civs had two poor cities there also.

I haven't played Terra in quite a long time now as I enjoy mixing it up. I find archipelago maps very easy to win at, it's the only map I have beat on huge, 18 civs on deity as the Dutch, I don't think the AI are equipped to take advantage of such a map.
I did really enjoy playing on some tilted axis maps, they seem to be quite varied and challenging.

I can't recall what variant it was but I have done a few huge/marathon/18civ/prince-emperor games on the ring themed maps. It made for good practice but like many maps, there is an advantage for the human player.

I could not answer the poll truly, each map is different and the game played reflects the map a fair bit. I wish there was a true random selection, there is something of the sort but I believe it only selects between a few variants instead of the whole lot.

I see from screenshots that Terra is probably the only map that gives barbarians some extra life

Edit: Also wanted to add that in the first ever game I got my ass completely handed to me. I must have tried to save scum but eventually got overwhelmed as AI's took their turns beating on me. For some reason I thought the bots would honor friendships and not seek out war unless they was an aggressive war based civ.

This left it's mark, Louis is nothing but a bulls-eye for me still to this day.

I found civ fanatics quickly after buying the game, noble difficulty demanded it !

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

TI found civ fanatics quickly after buying the game, noble difficulty demanded it !

Absolutely! I found the same myself. Kept getting my ass handed to me. I'm still no pro (Monarch player) but I'm at least competent enough to handle myself properly in most situations. Although I still make many mistakes and gambles that cost me, it's all part of the fun.
I use the autosaves quite a lot though, to go back and redo some bits. I should try a game without it sometime, but I doubt I'll get far. Although it will force me to think very carefully about certain decisions.

I've my first colonies set up in the New World. The Barbarians have organised very quickly, turning into Minor Civs. Had to fight tooth-and-nail to secure a foothold on the new continent, but the other AI have started settling now too so I'm not alone here to take on all of the Barbs. XD

There is (was) a great article in waracademy about mapcreation. Unfortunately all screenshots and links are ruined.

I actually had no idea there was an article on map creation. Hopefully it can be re-done some day. I have no experience in coding so python is not possible for me. Although I would love to make an Ireland map to play on. I seen a member post a half-finished one before.

 

[Ozbenno]

There is (was) a great article in waracademy about mapcreation. Unfortunately all screenshots and links are ruined.

There are moves afoot to sort out the war academy but not sure on timing.

I found civ fanatics quickly after buying the game, noble difficulty demanded it !

Same here. Kept getting whipped on Noble and searched online for help, found civfanatics and I'm still here 10 years on

 

[f1rpo]

Psycho: You might like the PerfectWorld map script (or rather its successors PerfectMongoose or Totestra). It produces very varied land shapes and has an option that reserves some landmass(es) as a New World where no civ can start. I'm attaching some screenshots. These are from a version of PerfectMongoose that I've customized to play more like the normal map scripts (e.g. adjusted the portion of forests, hills and arable land); I'm attaching that script too.
Edit (Mar 2018): I've recently fixed some issues with the script, so I'm attaching an updated version. In particular, the landmasses tend to be larger now and coastal mountain chains like in the last screenshot occur less commonly (and more Peaks inland instead).
Edit (May 2021): I've taken another stab at the script, fixing some (but not all) long-standing problems – as summarized in this Git commit message. This is my latest portable version (not requiring the AdvCiv mod); though I've already made some further tweaks ... Maybe I'll post an updated version including those latest changes in the PerfectMongoose thread at some point.

I prefer maps with just some initially unreachable land because, by the time Astronomy is discovered, there isn't usually enough time left to exploit an entire hemisphere. Also, the AI is slow to settle any New World. Fractal sometimes (but not very often) generates a small continent without starting locations, and I like the unpredictability. PerfectMongoose often produces a small terra incognita, even if the Old World Start option is not used; see the last of the attached screenshots.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I'll have a play of that map script. It looks like much fun. I initially thought the islands and continents looked quite small but then I realised that was because I'm not used to seeing the maps from such a height. XD
Will save now.

I'll ask aswell whilst I'm here, the question just came to my mind again;
Do people roll back through their autosaves very often?
I find myself scrolling back through when I make an unlucky gamble, such as sending an unescorted Settler 3-4 tiles outside my cultural borders. Or declaring war on another Civ in the hopes that my stack is large enough to take a few of their key cities and force a capitulation before I run out of steam.
I feel it may be ruining the game for me, taking out the element of surprise and chance, and removing many devastating consequences by not taking into account certain elements in decision-making - such as "Do I have enough units to make this work?", or "what is the likelihood of my Settler being killed?"

 

[Antony]

I used to retrace my steps through saves during the early stages of playing, about as much as I would world build. Eventually this seemed to sap some of the enjoyment from me and it would dishearten me on returning to that save. That's just me however..

Sometimes I still do it, if I'm playing a long game and I plan to do it in multiple sittings then often I'll save the game and continue for a bit and just let the hair down and play a bit.. crazy then I'd resume from the original save during the next sitting.

Lol, just had a giggle thinking where I scum out the most.. Probably during early game when I make foolish moves and lose workers/settlers to Barbs or an incredibly poor run on luck, that's not really me save scumming, more like a mini tantrum where quitting gives me the false illusion of pulling one back on the computer.

It's nice to have the choice, it just got to a point a fair while back where I felt like I was robbing myself out of a victory and would ultimately end in me dropping the game entirely.. Then again I'm the type of guy that has an overwhelmingly honest conscience, so much so it's been a pain in my ass lol.

Depends how you feel about it really, ultimately the more you play the less you will need to reload a save anyway, it's all experience.

 

[s.bernbaum]

I use autosaves only to prevent having to replay a bunch of turns if the game crashes. That used to happen a lot on my old computer, so I set autosave to happen every turn. It rarely happens now but I still leave it set that way just in case. Other than that, I have very rarely replayed a turn if I hit a wrong key causing something to happen that I did not intend to do.

I also enjoy exploring. I like Fractal and Big And Small maps. They frequently have significant land masses, especially BAS, that are uninhabited other than by barbarians. In a recent game on BAS, Marathon, Huge, I found three land masses capable of supporting several cities peopled soley by barb cities.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

It's a curse that my favourite part of the game comes too late, when there's little time for exploration and colonisation. I might just run for a time victory and see what happens. Revolutions are a royal pain in the ass when warring in this mod! Normally I would conquer swathes of land and then just 'chill out' for few turns until my armies
are ready to get back on-the-march again, but my newly conquered cities are always rife with revolution. You have to be very careful about your conquesting goals in this.

Is there a way on limiting the number of civilizations that can spawn in a game? I have 21 civs right now, even after me only starting with 5. Rebel groups an Barbarian Tribes forming into Civs has really increased the number of civs in a game.
I'd like to set the max at 18 or something, but I fear that would allow all 18 to only be in the Old World, as by the time I reach the uncolonised New World, there will be now more vacancies for civilizations for the Barbarian cities to take up.
Anyone have any tips for that?

 

[ArchGhost]

Hi everyone.
...
I made this thread out of happiness and eager to share this with someone but as an additional question for discussion - which map type is your favourite?
What sort of games do you enjoy? Archipelageo? Pangea? Continents?

I'll leave a poll for quick responses.

I'll play pretty much any of the maps except super island heavy ones like Archipelago. I find the lack of large land areas and necessity of pouring so many resources into stuff like galleys distasteful and tedious; I'd rather develop my cities for the long run, prep for a early war I can walk to, or have some crazy high pop inland workshop cities in late game for going to space. Terra was alright, but in my experiences knowing it's Terra from the start means a rather quick focus on Astro and once you start claiming the new world you/ve basically won already. Or I just spent my time focusing on the old world anyway; it doesn't matter if they have overseas cities in the New World, they capitulate all the same

Favorite? Probably Pangaea. It and Fractal are what I learned to play on, but fractal can have a lot of imbalance based on who starts together (or together at all). Pangaea (or similar one-mass maps) has a different dynamic than the map types with multiple continents, not just in that it largely makes seafaring, especially early, largely irrelevant, but wars are rapid and positional advantages are decisive since everybody can reach each other immediately. Land maps are both "easier" to play for me and in more danger of being stunted/boxed in or DoWed early at the same time, so it's a fair tradeoff and I find the dynamic more exciting. It lends more weight to early conflicts because of proximity and vying for the same pieces of the pie. Religion spread from the AI is faster and more reliable. Careful use of open border manipulations have a lot of tactical meaning on Pangaea (or any other land heavy map) in that everybody is going to be sharing a border with *someone* and if you can block access to yourself overland by negotiating conditions to close borders between you and a remote civ's neighbor, you can treat them like dirt. It lets you ignore diplomatic implications in some situations since they can't march through their neighbors closed borders if you bribe said neighbor to embargo or declare on them and block their path through Probably my favorite thing about land heavy maps is vassaling/allying a neighbor and using them as a buffer to declare on somebody on the other side of them fairly safely, which is useful to keep them from attacking someone else, to build up mutual war diplo with somebody else, etc.

If it isn't evident, I play fairly aggressively towards the AI early and Pangaea is a good map to utilize that. Worker steals, chokes, taking territory by force, etc. is a double whammy that strengthens you and weakens/kills the enemy, so I follow that doctrine most of the time, at least until I'm satisfied with what I hold and start planning for how to move on. It probably doesn't hold up well in higher difficulties (I'm just recently into Monarch myself, probably bumping to Emperor soon) but it's fun to me. Nothing funnier to me than finding Shaka or Monty immediately, getting out a a Woodie I or II Warrior to camp their capitol long enough to find Bronze, shuffle over a couple axes and watch them squirm for the rest of the game as I continue to expand and w/e while they are unable to do anything until I/somebody else finally kills them off. It's easier to do on wimpier targets but so much more satisfying to punk a warmongering punk instead

I'm not opposed to playing from an isolated position or with only one neighbor (who'll I'll make it my mission to conquer ASAP) on other maps types but I always just feel railroaded into space/culture those times, and intercontinental warfare stymies me.

For funsies I'll set up Pangaea/Huge/Marathon/18 civs and just play that over a week or so. Marathon dynamics are so different and it takes forever to get going, but by the time you can roll, it goes extremely fast. It's also fun to see massive clashes of masters/multiple vassals going against each other, pretty epic. My last game on Marathon was actually on Shuffle and I think it rolled Continents (only two landmasses, both evenly populated). I took my ENTIRE continent, 108 cities, with only somebody's liberated colony on a small 4 city island nearby as my vassal (couldn't be bothered to invade him beyond forcing the vassal) and by the time I made contact with the western continent Joao and Darius had all but two guys vassaled to them already. I managed to sneak a city into a borderless ice area just before Hatty claimed it, and kept it there for a future Airport rush. Managed to bribe Darius and his two vassals onto Joao and his 4...which ended up in Joao with 3 more vassals, heh. I had since made it to Flight and Industrialism + Combustion by the end of that war and had been airlifting tanks like mad in my ice junker each turn. Joao still plotting, so I immediately attack Pericles and vassal him in one turn,. Charlemagne two turns later, and declare on Joao myself at the same time with some 50-60 tanks already on the continent, start wiping out stacks from Joao and Darius...only to win the 51% dom limit next turn. Oops. Looking at the overall picture, their continent was large than mine so even with entire supercontinent of my own I was only around 47% by myself, but Charly (the 2nd biggest AI over there) put me over.

 

[6K Man]

Do people roll back through their autosaves very often?
I find myself scrolling back through when I make an unlucky gamble, such as sending an unescorted Settler 3-4 tiles outside my cultural borders. Or declaring war on another Civ in the hopes that my stack is large enough to take a few of their key cities and force a capitulation before I run out of steam.
I feel it may be ruining the game for me, taking out the element of surprise and chance, and removing many devastating consequences by not taking into account certain elements in decision-making - such as "Do I have enough units to make this work?", or "what is the likelihood of my Settler being killed?"

I guess this is as good a place as any to repost this thread:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/6k-mans-guide-to-reloading.356845/

 

[Lexicus]

I like Big and Small with the "Islands mixed in" (rather than "island region separate") and "islands" (rather than tiny or no islands), this usually gives some fairly substantial islands that can't be settled until Astronomy, and I usually don't meet all civs until civs start researching optics. I like this map script because games always have some balance between naval and land combat.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I guess this is as good a place as any to repost this thread:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/6k-mans-guide-to-reloading.356845/

I appear to fall into the Level 5-7 catagory most of the time.
I'll play a game and avoid such reloads. Might make it more tense and gambley.

 

[Colon]

I mostly play continents and islands, which is big and small but better looking and with more variation.

 

[Antony]

Just looking back on this..

Did anybody ever try playing with the advanced start? Whatever map variety you use it adds an interesting dynamic to a typical game. You can bee-line into big techs, cities or try and strike a balance. War typically breaks out if you go war heavy and try to annihilate, it's actually quite good if you are short on time. Sadly the bots are pretty lackluster.. but in numbers they make up for it

 

[Tristan_C]

I made this thread out of happiness and eager to share this with someone but as an additional question for discussion - which map type is your favourite?
What sort of games do you enjoy? Archipelageo? Pangea? Continents?

Having likes and dislikes is exactly what caused my Civ4 to suffer. I used to play on Imm and enjoyed charging in blind (rand civ + script) but eventually all I ever really wanted to do, ever, was spam cottages, so I went back to Emp and stopped getting better at the game. I'm obsessed with chopping down trees and spamming the effing things over every available square inch of land.

I definitely went through phases of maritime exploration, and enjoying beating up the barb state, and Terra is THE setting for that. So I can empathize.

Very fond of Inland Sea, Islands (all civs isolated starts), rainforest, and Terra insofar as they are enablers to this new flaw in my personality.

Just looking back on this..

Did anybody ever try playing with the advanced start? Whatever map variety you use it adds an interesting dynamic to a typical game. You can bee-line into big techs, cities or try and strike a balance. War typically breaks out if you go war heavy and try to annihilate, it's actually quite good if you are short on time. Sadly the bots are pretty lackluster.. but in numbers they make up for it

I've played 2 advanced start games before and both were interesting. In one case I went Renaissance era OCC and committed all my points to biology; it was one hell of a national park OCC. I lost because Louis suddenly went berserk and vassaled the rest of the world. Replayed and smacked him with armor, and won space, but I considered the game a fair-and-square loss.

The other case was my only culture win on record (~1.5 million points = 3 legendary stone-age villages). 10 turns of looking uneasily over at the AI shuffling Infantry around while I was researching agriculture, followed by "Tristan has won a Cultural Victory!" Whew. Intense.