Terra maps, are they racist?

[mechaerik]

Most of the crowd is actually like this:

 

[Link]

The new world in Terra is supposed to be empty of civilizations. Because of all this empty space, barb cities spawn. The same would happen anywhere where they were somewhat isolated.

 

[Blue Arc]

I don't play Terra because it's not really my thing, but while I can see how it can be viewed as racist, you have to remember that this is a very loose interpretation of history where all the more gruesome and terrible aspects of humanity are reduced to basic gameplay aspects or are not present at all. If you wanted to a South American civilization could conquer the world or become a dominant power, and a European power could get wiped off the map, and it's all done without a speck of blood ever spilled. This game is not a realistic portrayal of actual history, it's a game where you rewrite it to whatever you want it to be, that's all it is.

It's only racist if you perceive it to be, and with the Terra maps, you have to strain perception to make it racist, and even then it's very benign. The terra setting is vaguely evocative of European discovery and conquest of the New World, but the maps do not look like Europe and the Americas, none of the civilizations have to be European, in fact the only real connection is the "All players begin in the Old World" description. Change the description to "all players begin on the same continent", and you probably wouldn't even see the New World/Old World connotation at all.

And basically, barbarians are just another aspect of the game, one that's supposed to do nothing but attack you for a little bit of extra challenge. It's already been said, the barbarians don't represent anyone, they're there so something can directly oppose you in the early game, and with Terra, make it just a little harder for the people settling the new continent. If you don't think of it as "Europe vs. Americas", then it's simply "bunch of civs race to take landmass where some barbarians eventually spawned." I think it would undermine the idea of the Terra map if some actual civilizations were on the other continent because then it'd be a fractal/continent type game, in which case you might as well play one of those settings. Or you can turn the barbarians off. Problem solved.

So, while I can see how it can be viewed as racist, doing so does not mean you're protecting the dignity of Native Americans or that you're a better person for thinking it's racist, like the topic creator strangely thinks. If anything it's more like a "hey, that's kinda racist ha-ha" thing. Then you keep playing, because it's some vaguely insensitive thing they did but isn't worth thinking about beyond the first notice.

 

[Alki]

Are not all barbarians inherently racist? Why does some civs get picked to be the playable civs and some get lumped in with the barbarians? Were not the Vandals and the Huns not just civs but on the losing side of history? The Armenians and Nubians? The Goths and the Gauls?

Barbarians could easily have been called non player minor civs or some such tosh but Sid chose barbarian as that is what Romans callled any non citizen. It's really not a big deal is it?

 

[Link]

The armenians were not barbarians

 

[Alki]

From a Roman perspective anyone not part of the Empire was a barbarian.

 

[Higher Game]

From a Roman perspective anyone not part of the Empire was a barbarian.

Compared to Rome, everyone else WAS a barbarian.

 

[mechaerik]

What about China?

 

[Alki]

I don't think the Romans had much contact with anyone further east than The Huns.

 

[Higher Game]

What about China?

Average in all regards throughout their entire history. China has never been an exceptional nation.

I don't think the Romans had much contact with anyone further east than The Huns.

Rome traded with India.

 

[Alki]

Is India much further East than where the Huns come from? I thought it was just further south.

 

[Aeon221]

http://www.archive.org/stream/periplusoferythr00schouoft#page/n5/mode/2up

Anyway, as has been said multiple times already in this thread, the term was Greek to start with.

And I've always felt the same way about the Terra maps -- there's something vaguely off about the idea of the incredibly diverse and mythically rich peoples of the Americas being depicted as milling savages waiting for the men with guns, god and germs aplenty to visit salvation in the form of musket balls and pointy objects upon them.

Oh, and to burn all the texts that might have painted a different view. But we don't talk about that sort of thing these days.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Maybe the game would be more realistic if it stays exactly as it is for the most part, but when the game clock hits the late 20th century then we could get a new Great Person called the Political Correctness Advisor, who you can send into rival territory to extract reparation payments, or demand they spend money erecting monuments to the misunderstood civilizations they killed in the distant past, or demand that they start censoring history books in their libraries and suffer an according loss of research. You could basically use them to clog everything up in beurocracy and complicated diplomacy and stop anything getting done.

Or maybe when someone builds the internet world wonder then they also have to suffer a loss of productivity as their population gets sucked into debates on forums.

 

[Jerrymander]

Don't we play video games to get away from political correctness?

 

[King Flevance]

I love how this thread makes me forget about and then keeps popping up in my inbox.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Don't we play video games to get away from political correctness?

I was being sarcastic.

 

[Dr.Null]

there's something vaguely off about the idea of the incredibly diverse and mythically rich peoples of the Americas being depicted as milling savages waiting for the men with guns, god and germs aplenty

Guns, Germs and Steel.

The Cannons really do help.

 

[Sofar Sogood]

And I've always felt the same way about the Terra maps -- there's something vaguely off about the idea of the incredibly diverse and mythically rich peoples of the Americas being depicted as milling savages waiting for the men with guns, god and germs aplenty to visit salvation in the form of musket balls and pointy objects upon them.

Well, the Barbarians are more a product of the game mechanics acting upon an empty area. The idea of the Terra maps is to have a landmass free of Civilizations that allows you to play something of a Colony game. Barbarians spawn there merely because the landmass is empty.

And, really, when you can visit guns, god, and germs upon the Terra map's new world as one of those diverse and mythically-rich American civilizations (Maya, Aztec, Inca, Native America), it really doesn't seem like the intent is to depict the original inhabitants of the Americas as barbaric savages who are really only there to be destroyed. There are Barbarians, yes, but they're not representing the peoples of the Americas.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Average in all regards throughout their entire history. China has never been an exceptional nation.



Rome traded with India.

Once united, China has held a pretty impressive size. For the amount of time it's existed, that is reasonably exceptional even if they have minimal historical war success outside of the region. At some points they were quite stout technologically too. Maybe they haven't been BEST EVER at any one thing, but their consistent presence and large land mass is IMO exceptional. I'm not going to get into garbage like ranking cultures of around the world, but China's influence there is certainly notable.

 

[obsolete]

Not only is this game so racist, but that Cid guy also not just approves of Slavery, but he also encourages it in his games!

I hope you burn in hell Cid!

Sob...