[NFP] Terrible Upgrades for Byzantium & Gaul

[Lily_Lancer]

Gaesatae cannot upgrade to Swordsman. Although its UU isn't interesting, I expect Gaul can be good with a Swordsman rush, however, due to the upgrade problem we have to give up this idea.

To make it clear, 36-strength with Oligarchy, GG and Gaul's strength bonus is pretty good, much better than 30 vs units and 25 vs cities.

However, Gaul cannot upgrade its UU to swordsman, significantly tightens the time window as you have to hard build swordsmans.

I checked again. Tagma can upgrade to Cuirassier in GS.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

That's probably because Cuirassier is only available for GS and Byzantium is base game compatible.

 

[Kwami]

That's probably because Cuirassier is only available for GS and Byzantium is base game compatible.

I don't see why that matters.The base unit Knight has different upgrade paths: Tank for vanilla, Cuirassier for GS.

 

[8housesofelixir]

IMHO besides the Cuirassier-GS situation, these also look like some balancing efforts to me. For the Gaesatae, Anton clearly said that they designed Gaul as a defensive civ. Why would they give Gaul the ability to pull off a Swordsman rush under this particular design philosophy?

And to my knowledge Horseman rush is more cost-effective anyway (well only if you have horses).

 

[Lily_Lancer]

IMHO besides the Cuirassier-GS situation, these also look like some balancing efforts to me. For the Gaesatae, Anton clearly said that they designed Gaul as a defensive civ. Why would they give Gaul the ability to pull off a Swordsman rush under this particular design philosophy?

And to my knowledge Horseman rush is more cost-effective anyway (well only if you have horses).

Unfortunately Gaul's ability doesn't work for cavalries...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I don't see why that matters.The base unit Knight has different upgrade paths: Tank for vanilla, Cuirassier for GS.

Right but sometimes unique unit upgrade paths are different as you can tell. Varu upgrade into tanks too and that's a much longer window of usage.

IMHO besides the Cuirassier-GS situation, these also look like some balancing efforts to me. For the Gaesatae, Anton clearly said that they designed Gaul as a defensive civ. Why would they give Gaul the ability to pull off a Swordsman rush under this particular design philosophy?

The best defense is sometimes the best offense.
I'm pretty sure you are supposed to expand quickly but play a defensive game past the Medieval era, is what I think they were implying. The culture helps for defense against a tourism victory as well probably.

 

[Kwami]

Right but sometimes unique unit upgrade paths are different as you can tell. Varu upgrade into tanks too and that's a much longer window of usage.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with you original assertion, which is what I replied to. Of course, the developers can choose to skip an upgrade. That's not the same as being required to skip an upgrade in order to accommodate the pre-GS game.

 

[lotrmith]

Anything that cannot suddenly, immediately, consistently, and continuously warmonger is bad.