Insei
Chieftain
Territory score and sea tiles in C3C v1.22
I am using C3C version 1.22. I have a question about sea tiles. Are they part of your territory score? SirPleb found that sea tiles count towards your territory, but not toward your domination limit. This is documented in Maximizing Your Score in Civ3 and discussions threads referenced therein. To quote the article:
In one of my games I wanted to watch my score from the very beginning. After my first city expanded at turn 10 to include a sea tile, I found that the score I thought I should have doesn't agree with the F8 screen. I decided to make several tests to verify if sea tiles are or are not counted as territory.
My conclusion: In C3C version 1.22 sea tiles are not counted as part of the territory score. They do increase your final score if you work them with a citizen, adding either one or two points times Difficulty (depending on the citizen being content or happy).
Is this fact already known? If it is, I didn't find a mention of it. If it isn't, it would be nice if some of you could check my findings. Here's what I did:
First, I created a simple scenario with the following properties:
- Domination limit is 21 (per MapFinder).
- Difficulty: Chieftain (difficutly score multiplier is 1).
- Only one player, the Human Player.
- Only victory condition allowed is Domination.
Here is the scenario: Cleopatra of the Egyptians, 4000 BC.SAV
Here is a screen shot of the starting position: Screenshot
The points A, B, C, D, E, F are initially Coast tiles. In subsequent tests, they will be replaced one by one with Sea tiles. To keep the domination limit the same, each time a coast tile is replaced with a sea tile, a new coast tile will be added at the points 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, respectively.
The score will be noted for the first 10 turns (when the city expands). Comparing the seven scores should indicate if the sea tiles are counted or not. For each test, I recorded the data in the following table:
The first and second columns are self explanatory. The F8 screen displays the current turn number. First turn is zero, not one, at the end of 4000 BC. There is no score computed for turn zero (per F8 screen).
The third column ("PerTurnCitizens") is the internal score for that turn for your content citizens and specialists. It is 1 per content citizen or specialist, times Difficulty (which is 1 because I played on Chieftain). See SirPleb's article for details.
The fourth column ("PerTurnTerritory") is the internal score for that turn for your territory. According to the generally accepted formula it is 1 per each of land, coast, and sea tiles, times Difficulty (which is 1 because I played on Chieftain). See SirPleb's article for details. If there is any discrepancy with regard to sea tiles, we won't be able to see it directly because this column is not displayed on the F8 screen. However, we can see it indirectly, because the F8 screen displays the territory score. See below.
The fifth column ("F8WorldArea") is the percentage of the area that you own that goes toward the domination limit. It is displayed on the F8 screen.
The sixth column ("F8Citizens") is the game score contributed by your citizens as displayed on the F8 screen when you select Score from the drop down menu. It is computed as an average over the number of played turns of your internal, per turn citizens score (the third column in the table).
The seventh column ("F8Territory") is the game score contributed by your territory as displayed on the F8 screen when you select Score from the drop down menu. It is computed as an average over the number of played turns of your internal, per turn territory score (the fourth column in the table). If there is any discrepancy with regard to sea tiles, it is here that we will be able to notice it. We will compare the score that we think we should have according to SirPleb's findings with the score that the F8 screen displays.
The eigth column ("F8Score") is the game score as displayed on the F8 screen. It is the sum of the citizens score and territory score as displayed on the F8 screen (sixth and seventh column in the table above), rounded to the nearest integer.
First test
Map has coast tiles in positions A through F and ocean tiles in positions 1 through 6. Total land plus coast tiles: 31. Domination limit is 21 (per MapStat). 31 * 66% = 20.46, i.e. one tile over 20, which is 21. Check.
Turn 1: F8Citizens = 1 / 1 = 1.0. F8Territory = 9 / 1 = 9.0. F8WorldArea = 9 / 31 = 29.03%. Check.
Turn 2: F8Citizens = (1 + 1) / 2 = 1.0. F8Territory = (9 + 9) / 2 = 9.0. F8WorldArea = 9 / 31 = 29.03%. Check.
Turn 3: F8Citizens = (1 + 1 + 1) / 3 = 1.0. F8Territory = (9 + 9 + 9) / 3 = 9.0. F8WorldArea = 9 / 31 = 29.03%. Check.
....
Turn 9: F8Citizens = 9 * 1 / 9 = 1.0. F8Territory = 9 * 9 / 9 = 9.0. F8WorldArea = 9 / 31 = 29.03%. Check.
Turn 10 (city expands): F8Citizens = (9 * 1 + 2) / 10 = 1.1. F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 21) / 10 = 10.2. F8WorldArea = 21 / 31 = 67.74%. Check. We also won by Domination (the only victory condition enabled in this scenario).
First test conclusion: Everything checks. No discrepancies between the F8 screen reports and SirPleb's article.
Second test
Modify the map as follows: Replace tile A with a sea tile. Replace tile 1 with a coast tile. Total land plus coast stays at 31. Domination limit stays at 21 (per MapStat). We should not win by Domination at turn 10.
Turns 1 through 9 are exactly as in the first test.
Turn 10 (city expands): F8Citizens = (9 * 1 + 2) / 10 = 1.1. Check.
If we consider new territory to be 21, because sea tiles count as territory:
F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 21) / 10 = 10.2 Does not check. F8WorldArea = 21 / 31 = 67.74%. Does not check.
If we consider new territory to be 20, because sea tiles do not count as territory:
F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 20) / 10 = 10.1. Check. F8WorldArea = 20 / 31 = 64.52%. Check.
Second test conclusion: There is a discrepancy between SirPleb's article and the F8 screen with regard to territory score. It seems that sea tiles are not counted as territory score.
Important note: Sea tiles are not counted towards the domination limit. This is not in dispute.
Third test
Modify the map as follows: Replace tiles A and B with sea tiles. Replace tiles 1 and 2 with coast tiles. Total land plus coast stays at 31. Domination limit stays at 21 (per MapStat). We should not win by Domination at turn 10.
Turns 1 through 9 are exactly as in the first test.
Turn 10 (city expands): F8Citizens = (9 * 1 + 2) / 10 = 1.1. Check.
If we consider new territory to be 21, because sea tiles count as territory:
F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 21) / 10 = 10.2 Does not check. F8WorldArea = 21 / 31 = 67.74%. Does not check.
If we consider new territory to be 19, because sea tiles do not count as territory:
F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 19) / 10 = 10.0. Check. F8WorldArea = 20 / 31 = 61.29%. Check.
Third test conclusion: There is a discrepancy between SirPleb's article and the F8 screen with regard to territory score. It seems that sea tiles are not counted as territory score.
Fourth through seventh tests
For each test, modify the map as follows: Replace one more of the sea tiles with one coast tile (in the C through F locations). Replace one of the ocean tiles with one coast tile (in the 3 through 6 locations) so that to maintain the same number of coast tiles, and therefore the same domination limit.
For each, test, the Turns 1 through 9 are exactly as in the first test. Here is the Turn 10 data for all the tests:
The only way to make the F8WorldArea and F8Territory columns agree with the way territory is scored is to exclude sea tiles:
Test 2, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 20) / 10 = 10.1. Check. F8WorldArea = 20 / 31 = 64.52%. Check.
Test 3, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 19) / 10 = 10.0. Check. F8WorldArea = 19 / 31 = 61.29%. Check.
Test 4, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 18) / 10 = 9.9. Check. F8WorldArea = 18 / 31 = 58.06%. Check.
Test 5, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 17) / 10 = 9.8. Check. F8WorldArea = 17 / 31 = 54.84%. Check.
Test 6, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 16) / 10 = 9.7. Check. F8WorldArea = 16 / 31 = 51.61%. Check.
Test 7, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 15) / 10 = 9.6. Check. F8WorldArea = 15 / 31 = 48.39%. Check.
Conclusion
In C3C version 1.22 sea tiles are not counted as part of the territory score. They do increase your final score if you work them with a citizen, adding either one or two points times Difficulty (depending on the citizen being content or happy).
The above finding has little to no importance to playing games, as long as the final arbiter of any dispute is the F8 screen. And the number of sea tiles in a player's territory compared to the number of coast plus land tiles is small, even on Tiny maps. Therefore, any errors due to counting using utilities (for example) are likely to be small.
If you are milking a game, it is still important to include sea tiles in your territory, but only if you work them with a content or happy citizen. Otherwise there is no difference in score.
--Insei
I am using C3C version 1.22. I have a question about sea tiles. Are they part of your territory score? SirPleb found that sea tiles count towards your territory, but not toward your domination limit. This is documented in Maximizing Your Score in Civ3 and discussions threads referenced therein. To quote the article:
In one of my games I wanted to watch my score from the very beginning. After my first city expanded at turn 10 to include a sea tile, I found that the score I thought I should have doesn't agree with the F8 screen. I decided to make several tests to verify if sea tiles are or are not counted as territory.
My conclusion: In C3C version 1.22 sea tiles are not counted as part of the territory score. They do increase your final score if you work them with a citizen, adding either one or two points times Difficulty (depending on the citizen being content or happy).
Is this fact already known? If it is, I didn't find a mention of it. If it isn't, it would be nice if some of you could check my findings. Here's what I did:
First, I created a simple scenario with the following properties:
- Domination limit is 21 (per MapFinder).
- Difficulty: Chieftain (difficutly score multiplier is 1).
- Only one player, the Human Player.
- Only victory condition allowed is Domination.
Here is the scenario: Cleopatra of the Egyptians, 4000 BC.SAV
Here is a screen shot of the starting position: Screenshot
The points A, B, C, D, E, F are initially Coast tiles. In subsequent tests, they will be replaced one by one with Sea tiles. To keep the domination limit the same, each time a coast tile is replaced with a sea tile, a new coast tile will be added at the points 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, respectively.
The score will be noted for the first 10 turns (when the city expands). Comparing the seven scores should indicate if the sea tiles are counted or not. For each test, I recorded the data in the following table:
Code:
Turn Year Per Turn Per Turn F8 F8 F8 F8
Citizens Territory WorldArea Citizens Territory Score
0 4000 BC
1 3950 BC
2 3900 BC
3 3850 BC
4 3800 BC
5 3750 BC
6 3700 BC
7 3650 BC
8 3600 BC
9 3550 BC
10 3500 BCThe third column ("PerTurnCitizens") is the internal score for that turn for your content citizens and specialists. It is 1 per content citizen or specialist, times Difficulty (which is 1 because I played on Chieftain). See SirPleb's article for details.
The fourth column ("PerTurnTerritory") is the internal score for that turn for your territory. According to the generally accepted formula it is 1 per each of land, coast, and sea tiles, times Difficulty (which is 1 because I played on Chieftain). See SirPleb's article for details. If there is any discrepancy with regard to sea tiles, we won't be able to see it directly because this column is not displayed on the F8 screen. However, we can see it indirectly, because the F8 screen displays the territory score. See below.
The fifth column ("F8WorldArea") is the percentage of the area that you own that goes toward the domination limit. It is displayed on the F8 screen.
The sixth column ("F8Citizens") is the game score contributed by your citizens as displayed on the F8 screen when you select Score from the drop down menu. It is computed as an average over the number of played turns of your internal, per turn citizens score (the third column in the table).
The seventh column ("F8Territory") is the game score contributed by your territory as displayed on the F8 screen when you select Score from the drop down menu. It is computed as an average over the number of played turns of your internal, per turn territory score (the fourth column in the table). If there is any discrepancy with regard to sea tiles, it is here that we will be able to notice it. We will compare the score that we think we should have according to SirPleb's findings with the score that the F8 screen displays.
The eigth column ("F8Score") is the game score as displayed on the F8 screen. It is the sum of the citizens score and territory score as displayed on the F8 screen (sixth and seventh column in the table above), rounded to the nearest integer.
First test
Map has coast tiles in positions A through F and ocean tiles in positions 1 through 6. Total land plus coast tiles: 31. Domination limit is 21 (per MapStat). 31 * 66% = 20.46, i.e. one tile over 20, which is 21. Check.
Code:
Turn Year Per Turn Per Turn F8 F8 F8 F8
Citizens Territory WorldArea Citizens Territory Score
0 4000 BC 29
1 3950 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
2 3900 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
3 3850 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
4 3800 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
5 3750 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
6 3700 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
7 3650 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
8 3600 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
9 3550 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
10 3500 BC 2 21 67 1.1 10.2 11Turn 1: F8Citizens = 1 / 1 = 1.0. F8Territory = 9 / 1 = 9.0. F8WorldArea = 9 / 31 = 29.03%. Check.
Turn 2: F8Citizens = (1 + 1) / 2 = 1.0. F8Territory = (9 + 9) / 2 = 9.0. F8WorldArea = 9 / 31 = 29.03%. Check.
Turn 3: F8Citizens = (1 + 1 + 1) / 3 = 1.0. F8Territory = (9 + 9 + 9) / 3 = 9.0. F8WorldArea = 9 / 31 = 29.03%. Check.
....
Turn 9: F8Citizens = 9 * 1 / 9 = 1.0. F8Territory = 9 * 9 / 9 = 9.0. F8WorldArea = 9 / 31 = 29.03%. Check.
Turn 10 (city expands): F8Citizens = (9 * 1 + 2) / 10 = 1.1. F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 21) / 10 = 10.2. F8WorldArea = 21 / 31 = 67.74%. Check. We also won by Domination (the only victory condition enabled in this scenario).
First test conclusion: Everything checks. No discrepancies between the F8 screen reports and SirPleb's article.
Second test
Modify the map as follows: Replace tile A with a sea tile. Replace tile 1 with a coast tile. Total land plus coast stays at 31. Domination limit stays at 21 (per MapStat). We should not win by Domination at turn 10.
Code:
Turn Year Per Turn Per Turn F8 F8 F8 F8
Citizens Territory WorldArea Citizens Territory Score
0 4000 BC 29
1 3950 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
2 3900 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
3 3850 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
4 3800 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
5 3750 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
6 3700 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
7 3650 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
8 3600 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
9 3550 BC 1 9 29 1.0 9.0 10
10 3500 BC 2 20 or 21? 64 1.1 10.1 11Turns 1 through 9 are exactly as in the first test.
Turn 10 (city expands): F8Citizens = (9 * 1 + 2) / 10 = 1.1. Check.
If we consider new territory to be 21, because sea tiles count as territory:
F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 21) / 10 = 10.2 Does not check. F8WorldArea = 21 / 31 = 67.74%. Does not check.
If we consider new territory to be 20, because sea tiles do not count as territory:
F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 20) / 10 = 10.1. Check. F8WorldArea = 20 / 31 = 64.52%. Check.
Second test conclusion: There is a discrepancy between SirPleb's article and the F8 screen with regard to territory score. It seems that sea tiles are not counted as territory score.
Important note: Sea tiles are not counted towards the domination limit. This is not in dispute.
Third test
Modify the map as follows: Replace tiles A and B with sea tiles. Replace tiles 1 and 2 with coast tiles. Total land plus coast stays at 31. Domination limit stays at 21 (per MapStat). We should not win by Domination at turn 10.
Code:
Turn Year Per Turn Per Turn F8 F8 F8 F8
Citizens Territory WorldArea Citizens Territory Score
10 3500 BC 2 19 or 21? 61 1.1 10.0 11Turns 1 through 9 are exactly as in the first test.
Turn 10 (city expands): F8Citizens = (9 * 1 + 2) / 10 = 1.1. Check.
If we consider new territory to be 21, because sea tiles count as territory:
F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 21) / 10 = 10.2 Does not check. F8WorldArea = 21 / 31 = 67.74%. Does not check.
If we consider new territory to be 19, because sea tiles do not count as territory:
F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 19) / 10 = 10.0. Check. F8WorldArea = 20 / 31 = 61.29%. Check.
Third test conclusion: There is a discrepancy between SirPleb's article and the F8 screen with regard to territory score. It seems that sea tiles are not counted as territory score.
Fourth through seventh tests
For each test, modify the map as follows: Replace one more of the sea tiles with one coast tile (in the C through F locations). Replace one of the ocean tiles with one coast tile (in the 3 through 6 locations) so that to maintain the same number of coast tiles, and therefore the same domination limit.
For each, test, the Turns 1 through 9 are exactly as in the first test. Here is the Turn 10 data for all the tests:
Code:
Test Turn Year Per Turn Per Turn F8 F8 F8 F8
Citizens Territory WorldArea Citizens Territory Score
1 10 3500 BC 2 21 67 1.1 10.2 11
2 10 3500 BC 2 20 or 21? 64 1.1 10.1 11
3 10 3500 BC 2 19 or 21? 61 1.1 10.0 11
4 10 3500 BC 2 18 or 21? 58 1.1 9.9 11
5 10 3500 BC 2 17 or 21? 54 1.1 9.8 11
6 10 3500 BC 2 16 or 21? 51 1.1 9.7 11
7 10 3500 BC 2 15 or 21? 48 1.1 9.6 11Test 2, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 20) / 10 = 10.1. Check. F8WorldArea = 20 / 31 = 64.52%. Check.
Test 3, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 19) / 10 = 10.0. Check. F8WorldArea = 19 / 31 = 61.29%. Check.
Test 4, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 18) / 10 = 9.9. Check. F8WorldArea = 18 / 31 = 58.06%. Check.
Test 5, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 17) / 10 = 9.8. Check. F8WorldArea = 17 / 31 = 54.84%. Check.
Test 6, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 16) / 10 = 9.7. Check. F8WorldArea = 16 / 31 = 51.61%. Check.
Test 7, turn 10: F8Territory = (9 * 9 + 15) / 10 = 9.6. Check. F8WorldArea = 15 / 31 = 48.39%. Check.
Conclusion
In C3C version 1.22 sea tiles are not counted as part of the territory score. They do increase your final score if you work them with a citizen, adding either one or two points times Difficulty (depending on the citizen being content or happy).
The above finding has little to no importance to playing games, as long as the final arbiter of any dispute is the F8 screen. And the number of sea tiles in a player's territory compared to the number of coast plus land tiles is small, even on Tiny maps. Therefore, any errors due to counting using utilities (for example) are likely to be small.
If you are milking a game, it is still important to include sea tiles in your territory, but only if you work them with a content or happy citizen. Otherwise there is no difference in score.
--Insei
