Terrorism a no-go?

[sav]

So I hear Firaxis are doing what Dubya can't, and eliminating terrorism... no terrorism in Civ4? Are they doing this to appease the US market, or what? It makes no sense not to include it.

/does not condone terrorism IRL, but does in Civ, very much so

 

[Chieftess]

I think seeing huge stacks coming towards your city from another player would be enough.

 

[gorn]

Ol' Dubya seems to be the only one with the stones to stand up to terrorism, and has done more to combat it than any other world leader - or collection of world leaders combined.

Other than that, I am in complete agreement with Sav. Terrorism has a definate place in the game. Perhaps through the Espionage screen, which was rendered impotent in Civ 3.

 

[brinko]

maybe they will surprise us, just like osama did.

 

[mastertyguy]

All of you see terrorism has some thing the gov decides like if they want to increase the taxes, or has a unit. It isn't. It is a reaction by the poeple it self. What (I don't know how to spell it, so it is an approximation) al quaida does is a reaction against america's action. Terrorism is more like civil disorder than a unit or a slider. Another example of terrorism was the FLQ in quebec (actually, on google, flq is la Fédération Luxembourgeoise des Quilleurs, which is not the same thing as le Front de Libération du Québec). They were not a unit, neither a decision of a governement. Terrorist actions are only extremist reactions.

 

[sav]

To a certain degree, yeah, but what about govt sponsored terrorism? Don't pretend it doesn't exist - Lybia, Syria and Saudi Arabia have done it , the USA has in the past, France has done it to NZ even... even just the function of being able to divert funds like you can for science and luxuries could be an option, maybe in conjunction with certain combinations of the new civics sliders or dare i say it, religion... or within the espionage screen...

Just wondering why it's being ruled out altogether. It's not like they're gonna have a small wonder, '9-11,' or city improvement 'training camp'. I wouldn't expect that...

 

[ainwood]

Ok - what would you suggest that terrorism actually does?

Make one or two people unhappy?

 

[Nobody]

i think a good way for terrorism to work would be if you could sponser terrorism by paying money and having barbs pop up in a area, same could go for pirates or brabrain raids, dont even need to say terrorism

 

[johnnnybrauvo]

This is actually a cool idea .

I mean...I can see the 'politically correctness' thing...but what if its a type of government ?

Not to offend anyone or anything ( ITS JUST A GAME !!! ) but I usually have like 50 or so citizens fortified somewhere and just wake them to clean pollution in Civ 3: Conquests.

I think it'd be cool ( again...not to offend ANYONE !!! ) to strap bombs to some and drop them into cities.

Again...I doubt that will EVER happen...but it'd be cool...I mean..since they're going for historical themes...right ? I mean...you can ENSLAVE people in Conquests....so why not have terrorists in Civ 4 ?

Or maybe it can be a type of religion ? Or something.

Or maybe , if you dont have enough culture in one of your cities or you neglect a city for too long then a 'fanatacism gives rise to a terrorist cell' pop up comes up and now you have to deal with the consequences !?!?

Maybe ?

Anyways , I think it'd be a cool feature.

More depth to an already IN DEPTH game would be just that much more engrossing .

 

[Commander Bello]

As stated in related threads already, terrorism as you describe it, doesn't fit into the scale of Civ.
How would you display the killing of 34 people in a Civ-city of 12 pops? Even 9/11 would almost too "low" to be displayed in this scale - and to be honest, I don't miss it.

 

[johnnnybrauvo]

Maybe instead of a 'population' hit you get more 'unrest' in your cities ? Like..you get stifled production or an economic hit ?

Not to make light of it ( again..I'm talking about the game ) but after 9/11 the economy kind of tanked , Wall Street was a mess , and everyone was scared which effected productivity .

Wouldnt THAT be something significant to deal with in Civ 4 ?

I SEE how it would be hard to 'deal' with terrorism in the game . Because , who would you attack ? Or how would you even defeat that in the game ?

I mean , no ones actually found a way to defeat it in real life. And even if you DO deal with it....especially violently....doesnt that just make MORE terrorists ?!

Its like a catch 22.....and its probably a programming nightmare , which is probably one of the MANY reasons Firaxis decided to omit it .

I guess this discussion is a moot point , though , because we already know its not going to be in Civ 4.

I could just see the CNN Headlines 'blurb' about it now , if they were too include it .

Lol...or FOX's newses way of inferring something but using the Jeapordy method by framing it in the form of a question .

" Is Civilization 4 training terrorists ? "

Anyways , I personally think it'd be a cool feature . Or maybe something random that happens if you take over too much of the map ?

Meh...it would have been cool.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I think the issue is that terrorism shouldn't neccessarily KILL people (well, at the civ scale at any rate) but it SHOULD be able to hurt the happiness and health of a society that gets hit. Terrorist attacks against your nation should also force action from the player-either in cracking down on civil liberties (as a means of making infiltration and attack much harder) or by reaching out to potential enemies and 'spreading the wealth' and culture of your nation to them.
However, at its MOST extreme, 'terrorism' (or, better yet, sabotage) can and should be able to take the form of nuclear, biological and chemical attacks, assassination of Great People and provocation of civil wars.
Hope that makes sense.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[rhialto]

Ol' Dubya seems to be the only one with the stones to stand up to terrorism, and has done more to combat it than any other world leader - or collection of world leaders combined.

This is not the place to expound on your political beliefs. let's just say that your above statement is very debateable.

 

[sir_schwick]

Not to make light of it ( again..I'm talking about the game ) but after 9/11 the economy kind of tanked , Wall Street was a mess , and everyone was scared which effected productivity .

And that had nothing to do with the end of a 12 year technology bubble that had started to give way. 9/11 did not cause the recession, it simply exacerbated the decline of the market.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, look at Northern Ireland AND Israel. Both of these nation's economies have suffered badly as a result of the fear generated by terrorism.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

It would be fun to get a Terrorist Leader to send off on some mission, just like you get the other leaders once and a while. The chance could be tied to how fundamentalistic ones civ is, plus tied to a religious trait.
"There's 30% chance Osama will succeed in blowing up the Pyramids - Do you accept?"

 

[Meleager]

Maybe it could be somthing that spies could do? Afterall in most state sponsored terrororism it is secret service people who do it. When extremests do it, it is not usually state sponsored.

 

[gorn]

@rhialto:
Check the very first post in this thread - I believe your comments should be directed there.

In my own game, I have a Terrorist Training Camp "improvement" that pops a Terrorist (invisible, hidden nationality) every 5 turns. The Camp can only be built by a Fundamentalism government. It also has a high maintenance cost, to reflect the money (rather than shields) needed to support such an endeavor. Works quite well, actually. Makes for a cheap way for weaker civs to wage an invisible war on their neighbors, and makes for a worthwhile precision strike target for civs with an airforce. The precision strike ability is, in my opinion, mostly worthless in a vanilla-type game.

 

[Damnyankee]

It is not in Civ 4, but I bet a mod for it will be created not long after release. Infact, someone should do it now, for civ3

 

[Corvex]

I think that terrorism should be a kind of random event, namely, at the end of a turn a window might pop-up saying (for example) "Terrorism in Athens! Library destroyed!" (maybe hurting the economy as well(.
Terrorism should be more likely in occupied cities and cities with low morale. And you should be able to contribute funds to support terrorists amoung your enemies.