Terrorism in BTS??

[skallben]

I suppose pirates could be considered terrorists. I know they were during the 1600s.

I think it might be cool if you could "establish" modern barbarian bases in a mod or something. Maybe throw down a good chunk of gold to create a spawn for barbarians in enemy territory that throws partisan-esque guerrillas towards the nearest enemies (or possibly yourself, if unlucky). Sort of similar to the U.S. involvement in the Soviet/Afghani war or Soviet involvement in Vietnam?

If a friendly unit comes across it it becomes visible and alerts you. "A rebel base has been discovered within your borders!"

Have you ever tried Revolutions mod? It is actually a bit alike to what you describe. Don't think there's a BTS version yet though. It basically spawned partisans and random events based on alot of different factors. Superb mod, I hope it gets resurrected.

 

[zenspiderz]

I wouldn't mind seeing terrorism for realism, as long as they keep it realistic.. So civs would be able to conduct false-flag terrorism against their own people and blame it on any civ to decrease future war weariness in exchange for dumbed down citizens (-x science?)... like in real life.

Some one dial 911 !!!!11

 

[RuddagerRustin]

Well, what if barbarians in modern times could build spy units? After the middle ages you don't see barbs too often, but maybe they could randomly spawn off hill tiles at the edges of your cultural boarders (or not, whatever). They'd act just like player built spies except that they'd only forment unhappiness, poison water supply, support revolt and sabotage buildings and improvements. Barbs don't need to steal technology or treasuries.

 

[skallben]

I have gold!

 

[Ball Lightning]

Terrorism honestly doesn't do that much. No terrorists can topple a government. They most they can do is kill 0.0001% of the population of a city. Their goal is to induce the government to spend so much money dealing with the problem that the government can't deal with anything else.

It's probably best represented by maintenance costs.

However it can get countries to go to war with each other which can topple governments. Terrarism seems to be a event which they need and don't have, i'll add it into Events of the World mod.
I think 3 options:
Go to war
Threaten the enermy and loose relations
Ignore, but more chance of another one

 

[Drakan]

Terrorism honestly doesn't do that much. No terrorists can topple a government.

IMHO you're wrong. In Spain we all had it clear that the ruling political party was going to win by a very wide margin 3 years ago.

The islamisc terrorists struck three days before the elections killing over 300 people and wounding thousands more and effectively everyone voted the opposition and to everyones surprise they were elected, even they couldn't believe it.

So effectively they toppled the government within one day's attack.

 

[Lil_Yospeck]

Random event would be pretty cool.


"Your Governments Military Intel. have assessed that a terrorist nuclear attack on <random city> is a high risk possibility and that they believe a bomb may detonate today." [this turn]

Options:


1) Divert all available services to finding the bomb. (Cost: 5000gold. Bomb will not go off).

2) Evacuate as much of the cities populous as you can. (Lose 50% of Population in that city. Bomb will not go off).

3) Declare Marshal Law in the city, banning movement from the citizens. (10 angry citizens for 20 turns, small chance bomb will still explode).

4) Do nothing. (Nuclear bomb explodes.)


Might need some balancing though

 

[dh_epic]

IMHO you're wrong. In Spain we all had it clear that the ruling political party was going to win by a very wide margin 3 years ago.

The islamisc terrorists struck three days before the elections killing over 300 people and wounding thousands more and effectively everyone voted the opposition and to everyones surprise they were elected, even they couldn't believe it.

So effectively they toppled the government within one day's attack.

They didn't topple the government. Arguably, they influenced an election. (I don't know about spain's politics, but didn't the ruling party also blame the attacks on a group that turned out to not be behind it? That could, arguably, have a bigger impact on the election than the attacks themselves.)

Which is the real power of terrorism. The 300 people killed is tragic and evil. But I bet more people die of car accidents every year, and yet nothing is done. Terrorism is much more emotional. That's why the real power of terrorism isn't to kill (it's usually small amounts of people), but to influence the political debate. These influences can be intentional or unintentional. It can bait someone into overextending their military. It can lead to changes in diplomacy. It can impact government policy.

So, if you were to implement terrorism in the game... it would really just be a random event that occasionally forces war, forces peace, or forces a minor civics change. Maybe a small maintenance cost.

But certainly no real damage to your population or military.

 

[meatwad4289]

Well, what if barbarians in modern times could build spy units? After the middle ages you don't see barbs too often

Barbs nearly destroyed 2 nations during the industrial age. They had taken over 1/3 of a continent. I had no idea how it happened. But When I shipped in there It took a massive force to push themout.

 

[Figaro]

We have privateers, why not have ground units that do the same? I would have to send units in to attack my friends. Pisslby even take over a city, Just while there is resisitance mark it as Barb once resitance is gone make it mine muahhaa. or atleats have them be able to trash country sides, I hate destroying my ransk to capture lone workers or pillaging towns ect.

What would the point be in reputation if you could just ignore it?!

I tried that once in Civ3 - adding a land-Privateer that is - in the form of a Guerilla. Unfortunately what that basically meant is that no wars were ever conducted, cities kept switching hands between nations and chaos ensued! The beauty of Privateers is that, while able to cripple a civ economically, they pose no real direct threat to their cities.

 

[Joosty]

I think terrorism is great material for events, but that taking a terrorist attack as an event which leads to war is... well maybe a bit too much. Terrorism is more often practised by non-state actors and not always condoned by the state which provided the terrorists.

I think the correct way to handle terrorism is to have its effects only affect your own civ, or possible diplomatic relations, but not lead to war. However, the trigger might require that you have at least some civs around the planet which really dislike you, although I honestly don't know if the XML for event triggers allows for this condition.

Finally, don't forget that terrorism is not always an international business. I think the US has had its fair share of domestic terrorism over the years.

 

[A1CBOZ]

I think terrorism is great material for events, but that taking a terrorist attack as an event which leads to war is... well maybe a bit too much.

World War One started becasue Serbian terrorists shot the Austia-Hungarian empires prince.

IMO I think there should be 2 types of terrorism. State sponsered, which is already quasi-present with espionage. And then radical groups attacking in the form of random events, and Barb/terrorists that spawn in underdeveloped areas/cities of empires.

 

[Joosty]

Regardless of what historians would make of that statement, I get what you're saying. All I'm saying is that terrorism is not necessarily an instrument used by a state against another state, unlike say, spies or privateers.

 

[ComradeGeneral]

World War One started becasue Serbian terrorists shot the Austia-Hungarian empires prince.

True, and I'm sure the British considered George Washington somewhat of an insurgent and terrorist leader, (in a sense). But then again history is written by the victors.

 

[dutchking]

No terrorism please... I saw the smoke... It's not healthy for gamers to perform terrorism as an espionage mission. If firaxis is not going to add Hitler just for a scenario, what makes you think they'll add terrorism to the epic game??!

 

[A1CBOZ]

Yeah, I know it's not common, just saying that it happens.

And im sure Washington was a terrorist to Britain back in the day. I hope that a mod/patch would allow you to declare war on foreign nations if their spies are caught trying to screw with your stuff... like poison cities. But i guess I could just declare anyway....

 

[dozenlong]

World War I had little to do with the assasination; without the system of alliances and political scores to settle it would have been a minor 20th century event, not a World War.

However, it adds flair and character to the war; people are inherently drawn to personal stories. It would be interesting to add a mod that that put story behind conflict, so not just "I declare war on you" but various pretexts based on in game events combined. When one looks at history it is difficult to make a real case for any war being fought for any reason but economic/power gain, but almost no wars have that as a pretext, especially as we analyze more recent wars.

It would be interesting to see declarations of war be prefixed by details based on in game events (Trading, history, past wars, random events). It wouldn't add much to the gameplay per se, but could add a bit more flavor. Especially if reasons changed (going from hatred of non-nationals to "spreading democracy", "stopping injustice", "tame the savages", "You're not my religion") over time reflecting the technology and situation of the game.

I will agree that there is little proof terrorist attacks are major reasons for war. Rather they serve as good PR, pretexts, and non-economic reasons to fight and mobilize a population.

Actually, modelling population deception (as it becomes more fashionable to be nice to other humans instead of killing everyone, and it becomes less fashionable to hate the Sumerians just because you're the Romans) could be very interesting! It is partially done with war weariness, but it would be interesting to see this have a longer term, residual effect. Foreign aid and other such concepts could be modeled in the modern game.

 

[A1CBOZ]

World War I had little to do with the assasination; without the system of alliances and political scores to settle it would have been a minor 20th century event, not a World War.

I agree that the alliances are what caused the multiple declarations of war. (Germany and Britain really were kinda getting along!) But had it not been for the assasination, Austria wouldn't have had a reason to attack Serbia, causing Russia's 'intervention', which caused Germany's, then France..... you know the story...

 

[A1CBOZ]

Foreign aid and other such concepts could be modeled in the modern game.

There actually are a few random events that are foreign aid-esqe. But it would be nice if there was player controled options. Like helping an ally by giving him food after his production city got poisoned.

 

[Rusty Edge]

I think terrorism is great material for events, but that taking a terrorist attack as an event which leads to war is... well maybe a bit too much.

World War One started becasue Serbian terrorists shot the Austia-Hungarian empires prince.

IMO I think there should be 2 types of terrorism. State sponsered, which is already quasi-present with espionage. And then radical groups attacking in the form of random events, and Barb/terrorists that spawn in underdeveloped areas/cities of empires.

Something like -

The mosque in London has been destroyed by Confucian anarchists!

Enviornmental terrorists have replaced your coal mine with a windmill !

You can no longer support your jail, it has been overwhelmed by Pacifist protestors!

The coloseum in Madrid has been destroyed during a victory celebration by visiting football enthusiasts from Manchester - Open border agreement canceled!


Before Civ IV came out I had an idea for the civ III barbarian camps to transform in the industrial era -becoming anarchist training camps which had a fanatic ideology regarding a particular civic. They would have been stealthy guerilla units, but rather than attacking your civ, they attacked neighboring nations when they disliked their civics, which was bad for foreign relations, unless you aggressively retaliated or allowed foreign troops and air strikes within your borders.