Knight's move build pattern sounds good to me. I'm assuming this is more of a guiding principle open to modification based on circumstances than it is a firm rule. Below is another attempt at a dot map, this time with knight's move (or "L") spacing. I tried to minimize overlap while maximizing the number of cities within three moves from any given city, and of course put as many cities on rivers as possible. From this map, I think the second city should be at either the yellow or red dot. Both strenghten our claim to the silks. Red has the defensive advantage of being on a hill and is not across a river from Salamanca. Yellow is on a river, and is probably amidst more grasslands. Although there is a river between Salamanca and the yellow dot, the crossing will not affect troop movements from Salamanca to Yellow Dotowanda, just the other way around. Since one of the silks will be within our borders when Salamanca expands, I don't think the fact that the red dot grabs the other visible silk gives red a big advantage over yellow. Other thoughts? Other maps?
TGOM 02 - The Grumpy Old Monk and the Ancient Crone go to Alpha Centauri
- Thread starter Bede
- Start date
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Nice job of placement on rivers and coast, eotinb. 
There will be another nice spot on the third river east of the yellow dot as well that shows in my final screenie.
There will be another nice spot on the third river east of the yellow dot as well that shows in my final screenie.
SpikeIt
Deity
The hill 1 SE of red dot may just be on the river (looks like blue poking out). A bit farther than you may like, but it goes well with the agri trait.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
I think you're right, SpikeIt. If you look at the larger map (last post on previous page), you can see a river heading toward that hill, but one unexplored tile in between. It certainly appears that the river extends northwest to that hill.SpikeIt said:
cleverhandle
King
Got it. Will play the turns shortly. We'll still be working on the first settler by the time I finish my 10, so I'll hold off most of my thoughts on city sites until we get some more exploring done. I do agree that the Knight's move placement is generally a safer bet than spreading out. This is particularly true on a 5 billion year map with so many rivers - practically every tile we can see can be a high yield tile as soon as we revolt to Republic, so it makes sense to work them as soon as possible. On younger maps spreading out more is easier to handle, since there are more mountains and hills that will take a long time to improve anyway.
On the subject of huts, I also agree about leaving them alone. Certainly don't mess with the southern one until we have a unit nearby to protect the city and worker. The northern one is far enough away that's it's not as dangerous, but I would still only pop it if it were on more defensible terrain. Also, barbs can definitely *not* pop from a hut if it is within a city's 9-tile radius - check out the GH probability article for that one. However, they *can* pop if Salamanca's borders were to expand or if we place another city in such a way that the GH is in a culture gap that is "auto-filled" because of claimed tiles on opposite sides. So be careful about culture borders when you're founding.
On the subject of huts, I also agree about leaving them alone. Certainly don't mess with the southern one until we have a unit nearby to protect the city and worker. The northern one is far enough away that's it's not as dangerous, but I would still only pop it if it were on more defensible terrain. Also, barbs can definitely *not* pop from a hut if it is within a city's 9-tile radius - check out the GH probability article for that one. However, they *can* pop if Salamanca's borders were to expand or if we place another city in such a way that the GH is in a culture gap that is "auto-filled" because of claimed tiles on opposite sides. So be careful about culture borders when you're founding.
If there is a river or lake 1SE of red that is the spot for a town.
I think our settlement order should go Blue for the early boat, Yellow, Red, Gray, then NE from Gray and ESE from Red. I don't see any real hurry on the Lavender or Olive.
What was the vector on the Greek hoplite BTW? That will have an impact on settlement order, as will resources.
Nice call on the trade delay. My rule of thumb says not to trade techs unless you have a third party to share in the pain or the wealth. And I wouldn't worry too much about relative position in the tech race. If all goes well we should be churning right along. And the big problem will be keeping the other guys in a position to help us out.
I think our settlement order should go Blue for the early boat, Yellow, Red, Gray, then NE from Gray and ESE from Red. I don't see any real hurry on the Lavender or Olive.
What was the vector on the Greek hoplite BTW? That will have an impact on settlement order, as will resources.
Nice call on the trade delay. My rule of thumb says not to trade techs unless you have a third party to share in the pain or the wealth. And I wouldn't worry too much about relative position in the tech race. If all goes well we should be churning right along. And the big problem will be keeping the other guys in a position to help us out.
cleverhandle
King
Pre-Turn - Bumped lux to keep Salamanca happy. Writing in 24.
21-Chop finishes - no BG. Worker roads. Since the north is pretty well explored, RF swings east and BF heads south.
22-zzz
23-MM to lessen food overflow and pick up extra shields and coins by working the silk forest.
24-Salamanca grows and lux goes to 20%. Writing in 17. Assigned 3rd citizen to the river grass, since working the sugar won't speed up the granary (due in 3), and I want to keep 3 fpt instead of working the silk forest. Start mine.
25-zzz
26-BF is seeing lots of jungle to the south.
27-Salamanca Granary->Settler. Greece discovers the Wheel and has 2 cities. Reassign third citizen to silk forest - by working this for one turn, switching to grass, and then working it again at 4pop we can get our settler one turn earlier than by working the grass and get 4 extra coins too, at the cost of only 2 food overall.
BF makes contact with Egypt in the South. Same tech as Greece, minus the Wheel, 2 cities. Greece will not trade the Wheel at any cost.
28-Egypt and Rome make contact, both have CB, Masonry, BW, Wheel, and now WC. Alex will give Wheel + 8g for Pottery. I figure it's best to take it, since we want to see horses and we'll want to hold back on giving up Writing. I make the trade - not only do we have horses, but they're located under Salamanca! Can't beat that... The only trade possibility with Cleo is Pottery + 14 gold for CB. I pass on that since we're running a deficit already and CB is not a priority.
29-zzz
30-Mine finishes. Worker to BG. Blue finds GH in the southern jungle. Writing in 11.
Various thoughts on...
Exploration - (See screenshot in next post.) Looks like we've got a lot of breathing space, probably because of the 60% water setting. I'm not sure where to move RF now - I'm surprised he hasn't found a Greek city yet. I guess they're to the SE of his position. The Hoplite just seems to be meandering around aimlessly. The south looks jungle-licious.
Resources - Having horses under Salamanca is an obvious plus. But luxes are very lacking - the only other lux I found was another silk source to the south. Iron will be the interesting question, given the scarcity of hills and mountains.
Production - When Salamanca grows next turn it should auto-assign the citizen to the silk forest. That will give 6spt and complete the settler in 2 with no shield overflow though it will only provide 2fpt for those turns. I would go with that, since the silks provide a nice commerce boost too.
Settlement - There's lots of space here and no immediate pressure to settle the less productive lands, so I'm pretty much in agreement with Bede on the order. But I think I would settle yellow before blue - there are a lot of BG's up there, and our worker is already in position to make improvements there. But blue isn't bad and a boat would be nice. edit: Forgot to mention, there's another oasis in the fog directly NW of the visible one. That will work well with the SE-of-red position.
The save is here.
21-Chop finishes - no BG. Worker roads. Since the north is pretty well explored, RF swings east and BF heads south.
22-zzz
23-MM to lessen food overflow and pick up extra shields and coins by working the silk forest.
24-Salamanca grows and lux goes to 20%. Writing in 17. Assigned 3rd citizen to the river grass, since working the sugar won't speed up the granary (due in 3), and I want to keep 3 fpt instead of working the silk forest. Start mine.
25-zzz
26-BF is seeing lots of jungle to the south.
27-Salamanca Granary->Settler. Greece discovers the Wheel and has 2 cities. Reassign third citizen to silk forest - by working this for one turn, switching to grass, and then working it again at 4pop we can get our settler one turn earlier than by working the grass and get 4 extra coins too, at the cost of only 2 food overall.
BF makes contact with Egypt in the South. Same tech as Greece, minus the Wheel, 2 cities. Greece will not trade the Wheel at any cost.
28-Egypt and Rome make contact, both have CB, Masonry, BW, Wheel, and now WC. Alex will give Wheel + 8g for Pottery. I figure it's best to take it, since we want to see horses and we'll want to hold back on giving up Writing. I make the trade - not only do we have horses, but they're located under Salamanca! Can't beat that... The only trade possibility with Cleo is Pottery + 14 gold for CB. I pass on that since we're running a deficit already and CB is not a priority.
29-zzz
30-Mine finishes. Worker to BG. Blue finds GH in the southern jungle. Writing in 11.
Various thoughts on...
Exploration - (See screenshot in next post.) Looks like we've got a lot of breathing space, probably because of the 60% water setting. I'm not sure where to move RF now - I'm surprised he hasn't found a Greek city yet. I guess they're to the SE of his position. The Hoplite just seems to be meandering around aimlessly. The south looks jungle-licious.
Resources - Having horses under Salamanca is an obvious plus. But luxes are very lacking - the only other lux I found was another silk source to the south. Iron will be the interesting question, given the scarcity of hills and mountains.
Production - When Salamanca grows next turn it should auto-assign the citizen to the silk forest. That will give 6spt and complete the settler in 2 with no shield overflow though it will only provide 2fpt for those turns. I would go with that, since the silks provide a nice commerce boost too.
Settlement - There's lots of space here and no immediate pressure to settle the less productive lands, so I'm pretty much in agreement with Bede on the order. But I think I would settle yellow before blue - there are a lot of BG's up there, and our worker is already in position to make improvements there. But blue isn't bad and a boat would be nice. edit: Forgot to mention, there's another oasis in the fog directly NW of the visible one. That will work well with the SE-of-red position.
The save is here.
cleverhandle
King
Nice, very nice.
1SE of Red Dot is looking better and better, on a hill (maybe there is iron), on a river, has s floodplain handy and forests.
Note: Be careful with the forest chops and keep at least one forest or more per town depending on the food surplus. For an AGRI civ they are a cheap source of shields (2spt with only a road and the city center makes up the missing food).
Roster:
gmharriet
cleverhandle
General Mayhem <----------------- up
eotinb - on deck
Bede
1SE of Red Dot is looking better and better, on a hill (maybe there is iron), on a river, has s floodplain handy and forests.
Note: Be careful with the forest chops and keep at least one forest or more per town depending on the food surplus. For an AGRI civ they are a cheap source of shields (2spt with only a road and the city center makes up the missing food).
Roster:
gmharriet
cleverhandle
General Mayhem <----------------- up
eotinb - on deck
Bede
General Mayhem
Monarch
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- Aug 30, 2004
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- 329
I've got it. Settle blue, then what do you think about at least building warriors as garrison's? That one hoplite could take us out of the game right now if he was so inclined.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: keep this up, ill be lurking, good luck gmaharriet and everyone!
I wouldn't worry too much about a single Greek hoplite (a single German archer is another story).
There will be lots of opportunity for MP building once the settler is done as Salamanca will take a while to get back to settler size.
I'm with cleverhandle on the settlement priority. GO for the yellow dot high production first. Worker is there to develop and we have met two nations already. There is probably only one more on this continent and since we have the sea at our backs two exploring warriors will find them.
There will be lots of opportunity for MP building once the settler is done as Salamanca will take a while to get back to settler size.
I'm with cleverhandle on the settlement priority. GO for the yellow dot high production first. Worker is there to develop and we have met two nations already. There is probably only one more on this continent and since we have the sea at our backs two exploring warriors will find them.
General Mayhem
Monarch
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- 329
Ok, yellow it is, got confused by the other posts as to which one we wanted first.
General Mayhem
Monarch
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Need the team's opinion here: We just got writing, and both Egypt and Greece will give us 3 tech's (BW, Masonary, and WC), and up to 50 gold for it. Whichever one we didn't trade with could sell us CB and possibly other second tier techs. However, I'm kind of inclined to not trade it for right now so that they can't research Philosophy on us. What do you guys think? I'll wait a couple hours, if I don't get a response by then I'll go ahead and finish my last 2 turns.
Here is where it gets tricky....
The primary consideration is our cash position. If we have enough in the kitty to keep up the research burn I see no urgency in selling Writing.
If the cash position is not good enough then, check the offers every turn, as soon as the offer to buy writing drops in value, sell it to both.
Alternatively, you could hold it as a monopoly until one other nation learns it then sell it on immediately to the other.
On the third hand, you could keep it in the bag until CoL is learned.
If we hit the Republic gambit we will make up the back techs quickly, and even if we don't we will still make up what we need to keep progressing.
The primary consideration is our cash position. If we have enough in the kitty to keep up the research burn I see no urgency in selling Writing.
If the cash position is not good enough then, check the offers every turn, as soon as the offer to buy writing drops in value, sell it to both.
Alternatively, you could hold it as a monopoly until one other nation learns it then sell it on immediately to the other.
On the third hand, you could keep it in the bag until CoL is learned.
If we hit the Republic gambit we will make up the back techs quickly, and even if we don't we will still make up what we need to keep progressing.
General Mayhem
Monarch
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- 329
Ok, I'll hold it for now, with what they are willing to offer for it I don't think either one of them is close to researching it, and unless they get lucky with a hut pop the deal will still be there in 2 turns. Turn log/save should be posted shortly.
General Mayhem
Monarch
- Joined
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- 329
Turn log:
Turn 0
Check things out, they look ok, so end turn.
Turn 1
Salamanca grows, have to up lux to 30% to keep things happy.
Turn 3
Salamanca builds settler, start on another settler (due in 8) since its still at size 2 and due to grow in 3. Lux goes back down to 10%, science to 90% to get writing due in 8.
Turn 4
Blue Feather sites this:
Turn 5
Change Salamanca to warrior because of this:
Turn 6
Salamanca builds warrior, but since the barbs seem content to leave us alone I'll leave them alone. Found city on yellow dot:
Decide to keep production on warrior for now due to having barbs running around.
Turn 7
Sorry guys, guess I got a little too dependant on CAII's alerts, and it for some reason decided not to keep the current file updated, so I missed Salamanca growing, and it rioted. Also, barbs move towards our worker that was building a road on the silks, and since I have rather large doubts as to whether or not 1 warrior could defend him successfully, I move him. Attack the barbs with our warrior, and he dies valiantly after scratching one of them
Turn 8
Worker plays ring around the rosie with barbs.
Turn 9
We finally get writing, set research towards COL, due in 34 at 70%(break-even). Bedeville is about to get pillaged, but we don't have much to lose.
Turn 10
Bedeville gets pillaged, we lose 4 gold.
to the roaming hoplite, the other barb suicided against it.
Exploration:
Settler will be done in 3, could be done in 2 if we switched the citizen from the grassland to the forest. I would settle blue dot next so we can get a boat out there. I still haven't found Egypt, but the Greeks have been located, but with that jungle I think it might be a bit before they start coming north. COL is due in 33 at 70% break-even research with a whopping 5 gold in the treasury, so the next player may want to consider making a deal with moneybags Greece to give us a little cushion. Deals avaliable are BW, WC, CB, and Masonary, of which we can get 3 of the 4 and some gold from either Egypt or Greece, with Greece being will to give us more gold since they have more.
Turn 0
Check things out, they look ok, so end turn.
Turn 1
Salamanca grows, have to up lux to 30% to keep things happy.
Turn 3
Salamanca builds settler, start on another settler (due in 8) since its still at size 2 and due to grow in 3. Lux goes back down to 10%, science to 90% to get writing due in 8.
Turn 4
Blue Feather sites this:
Turn 5
Change Salamanca to warrior because of this:
Turn 6
Salamanca builds warrior, but since the barbs seem content to leave us alone I'll leave them alone. Found city on yellow dot:
Decide to keep production on warrior for now due to having barbs running around.
Turn 7
Sorry guys, guess I got a little too dependant on CAII's alerts, and it for some reason decided not to keep the current file updated, so I missed Salamanca growing, and it rioted. Also, barbs move towards our worker that was building a road on the silks, and since I have rather large doubts as to whether or not 1 warrior could defend him successfully, I move him. Attack the barbs with our warrior, and he dies valiantly after scratching one of them
Turn 8
Worker plays ring around the rosie with barbs.
Turn 9
We finally get writing, set research towards COL, due in 34 at 70%(break-even). Bedeville is about to get pillaged, but we don't have much to lose.
Turn 10
Bedeville gets pillaged, we lose 4 gold.
to the roaming hoplite, the other barb suicided against it.Exploration:
Settler will be done in 3, could be done in 2 if we switched the citizen from the grassland to the forest. I would settle blue dot next so we can get a boat out there. I still haven't found Egypt, but the Greeks have been located, but with that jungle I think it might be a bit before they start coming north. COL is due in 33 at 70% break-even research with a whopping 5 gold in the treasury, so the next player may want to consider making a deal with moneybags Greece to give us a little cushion. Deals avaliable are BW, WC, CB, and Masonary, of which we can get 3 of the 4 and some gold from either Egypt or Greece, with Greece being will to give us more gold since they have more.