the 7 religons:S

[Vietcong]

i can under stand hinduism, buddhism, islam, jewdism, and crhistanity. but y add confusism *sp* and daoism?? ther very similer to buddhism, and i think thers a gap in the world realgions..insted of those 2, y not some pagen religon such as those used by greeces and romans? and something eals like zoroasterism?

 

[Lonesamurai]

1. Spelling
2. Confucianism and Taoism are nothing like Buddhism
3. Greeks and Romans were not pagans

Other than that, I understand what you are saying, paganism could have been a good ancient age religion.

EDIT - Sorry about criticising your spelling, I didn't read your sig

 

[Gladi]

Bright day
I have not read much 'bout this, but should¨n't there be, like, some start-up religion? You know, it would be like so totally uncool if you had Christianity in 5000BC .

 

[North King]

They are NOTHING like each other. Buddhism is nothing like Taoism or Buddhism. Judaism is lame, though. I mean, you already have two derivatives of it, and no things like the sun cult of the Incas. Sun cults have been the religion of most of the civilized world for centuries.

And where's Zoroastrianism? No, I'm not kidding, it heavily influenced Christianity and was one of the greatest world religions before Judaism.

Well, if and when I get the game, out with Judaism.

 

[dc82]

judaism is far from lame, esp. as it lead the way for christianity and islam. the impact that judaism has had, aside from its later christianity/islam branching is profound and immeasurable as well.

confucianism is a bit unnecessary, esp. since it wasn't a religion and much more a philosophy that guided life. even daoism, in its original form wasn't an religion. the problem esp. when u get to asia is that u can't as clearly define one's faith - many people have their own mixture of faiths and philosophies - in china, btw daoism, confucianism, buddhism, ancestral worship - in korea same thing, in japan, add animalism, and zen teachings...

either way, if u're really THAT dissatisfied w/ a certain religion i'm more than sure u can edit that out. but u shud watch wud u be more tactful when u're talking about other people's faith.

 

[North King]

judaism is far from lame, esp. as it lead the way for christianity and islam. the impact that judaism has had, aside from its later christianity/islam branching is profound and immeasurable as well.

confucianism is a bit unnecessary, esp. since it wasn't a religion and much more a philosophy that guided life. even daoism, in its original form wasn't an religion. the problem esp. when u get to asia is that u can't as clearly define one's faith - many people have their own mixture of faiths and philosophies - in china, btw daoism, confucianism, buddhism, ancestral worship - in korea same thing, in japan, add animalism, and zen teachings...

either way, if u're really THAT dissatisfied w/ a certain religion i'm more than sure u can edit that out. but u shud watch wud u be more tactful when u're talking about other people's faith.

Right.... Confucianism should be out when Judaism is in? Do you know what you're talking about?

Confucianism might be more philosophy than other religions, but what is a religion besides a belief system, a philosophy?

Confucianism heavily influenced society in China for centuries, whereas Judaism was the faith of no more than 50 million people at any one time. Zoroastrianism is more influential to most Christian beliefs than Judaism.

And you're criticizing me about disrepecting faiths? You just claimed that Confucianism shouldn't be in because it's indistinguishable from Buddhism or Taoism; well, that's not at all true if you actually looked at the religions at all.

 

[dc82]

no calling a religion "lame" is disrespecting a religion.

and no, there's a difference between a religion and a philsophical belief system, at least in the way it's being represented as "religion" in civ.

confucianism while spreading to millions of people, was more of a moral code system that people abided in in their lives - a RELIGION is more than just a philosophy, but often has a cause behind it, a deity, a beginning and an end - no matter what ur stance is on religion, the fact of the matter is, wars were never waged for confucianism and that kind of belief - wars were fought for judaism, christianity, islam, buddhism, hinduism - there is a sharp contrast between the two u need to distinguish.

no one's say other religions such as zoroastianism or whatever shudn't be in. i rather taht be in than confucianism.

and again, there's nothign wrong with different opinions on which religion makes it in the game, its' the same as saying which civ or leader shud come in - but it's far different to start calling one's personal belief/faith as "lame."

 

[Xineoph]

whereas Judaism was the faith of no more than 50 million people at any one time.

Yeah...ya know it's kinda hard to gain numbers, when you've been persecuted since the beginning.

Inquisition, Holocuast, Crusade's, Conversions, Massacres......etc, etc...etc.

But you cannot put a price on the historical impact it has had in the western world.

Even now, Israel a nation only 57 years old, has been in the newspapers, as much as USA was in the very beginning.

I hope they put Israel/Hebrew's as a main Civ in future games, they truly deserve it, as they truly stood the test of time....;p

 

[Gabryel Karolin]

I wouldnt say Judaism is lame, in fact if I were to go suddenly religious I would pick Judaism (because its the "original" monotheistic faith). However, I dont think that Judaism has had enough influence in the world to be in the game, its never been the major religion anywhere except for a small piece of land in the Middle-East (and possiby parts of Ethiopia). As mentioned both Islam and Christianity comes from Judaism, but thats not really an argument for having it in.

Id much rather see something like Sun Cult in the game as thats something which has been practiced pactically around the world with Incans, the Romans Sol Invictus cult, in my own Scandinavia and many other countries.

Paganism is *not* a religion, its a biased Christian name for a myriad of faiths that have nothing to do with eachother.

confucianism while spreading to millions of people, was more of a moral code system that people abided in in their lives - a RELIGION is more than just a philosophy, but often has a cause behind it, a deity, a beginning and an end - no matter what ur stance is on religion, the fact of the matter is, wars were never waged for confucianism and that kind of belief - wars were fought for judaism, christianity, islam, buddhism, hinduism - there is a sharp contrast between the two u need to distinguish.

I dissagree with this, a religion is a philosphy, in a way. Also by your logic Japan never waged any wars.

 

[dc82]

my guess y they dun put israel/hebrews in the game - it is just a game, but i'm guessing they still dun wanna hafta deal with a situation where the game says "hebrew/israel destroyed by X (even worse, if it said germans)" or something like that. i mean, whether they personally think it's a big deal or not, it's prob. just a hassle they rather not put up w/, for those who mite be offended. but that's just my guess on y they're not in the game.

 

[Xineoph]

And seeing

Arabs Destroyed by Americans is even better?

Or Islam's holiest site has been destroyed by Americans.


(we get to destroy, other religions holy sites don't we?)



Or how about........Russians massacring it's own citizens.


There's always going to be something people don't like, as it doesn't go too overboard, it should be fine.

This game is about fun...not what some twisted people plan to do to some minorty or whatever. =\

 

[dc82]

I wouldnt say Judaism is lame, in fact if I were to go suddenly religious I would pick Judaism (because its the "original" monotheistic faith). However, I dont think that Judaism has had enough influence in the world to be in the game, its never been the major religion anywhere except for a small piece of land in the Middle-East (and possiby parts of Ethiopia). As mentioned both Islam and Christianity comes from Judaism, but thats not really an argument for having it in.

Id much rather see something like Sun Cult in the game as thats something which has been practiced pactically around the world with Incans, the Romans Sol Invictus cult, in my own Scandinavia and many other countries.

Paganism is *not* a religion, its a biased Christian name for a myriad of faiths that have nothing to do with eachother.



I dissagree with this, a religion is a philosphy, in a way. Also by your logic Japan never waged any wars.

here's one def. for religion:
Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

or

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion

while philosphy is:
Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.

or

The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.

the point is, while a religion will contain many elements of philosophy and philosophy in many aspects is like a religion - there r some slight core differences between religion and a moral code, such as confucianism. as we can see w/ human nature, once u place a deity, often w/ a purpose, and ends, there is a sense of fundamentalism that can occur that has lead to many things, whether they be works of art and literature, or wars and genocide. confucianism while affecting as many people as religions, and as much as it can be just as much a part of one's life, isn't quite the same as buddhism or islam, in terms of the role it plays.

japan didn't wage wars based on philosophy or moral codes - their basis for wars w/ korea, china, russia, etc. was on a completely different rationale. (altho if u want to u can say that their belief in the deity of the emperor provided some basis/support for wars - in which it wud be classified as a religion, and not a philosophy)

now in terms of judaism,

while those who adhere to judaism may not be as "large" in number as other religions, the fact remains that judaism has played a pivotal role in human history. the fact that it did lay grounds for two other religions is in fact very important. it was one of the first religions to become monotheistic, and its role, whether it was during the babylonian captivity, or wwii, or the russian exodus, or the creation of israel (and hostility from arab nations today) has had huge implications.

size shudn't necessarily define things - otherwise by those standards, certain civ's shud be taken out 'cuz they weren't "as large" as other civs. but they're in because the role they played in history was large and had a huge effect to the people and civs around them.

 

[dc82]

And seeing

Arabs Destroyed by Americans is even better?

Or Islam's holiest site has been destroyed by Americans.


(we get to destroy, other religions holy sites don't we?)



Or how about........Russians massacring it's own citizens.


There's always going to be something people don't like, as it doesn't go too overboard, it should be fine.

This game is about fun...not what some twisted people plan to do to some minorty or whatever. =\

oh i'm not saying it's any better. i'm jus saying that's my guess at their rationale behind it. and while all of ur examples r just as atrocious and touchy, there is an extra sensitivity in the minds of many people in the way the jewish people faced their genocide. again, i'm not disagreeing w/ u, just a guess at their rationale.

 

[Crazy Eskimo]

Just for the record, I believe that (barring generic religions which would be a much better choice than using actual ones) Judaism, Confuscianism, Sun cults, etc. should all be in the game. Why have less variety when you can have more?

However, I do think there is a difference between a philosophy like Confuscianism and a religion. A philosophy sets out a moral code based a certain set of beliefs. A religion does the same, but attempts to explain the supernatural as well. As far as I know, confuscianism never tried to do the latter. That does not, however, mean that Conscianism should be excluded from the set of "religions" that Civ offers. After all, the state sponsored atheism of the Soviet Union certainly had a profound influence on the course of history, yet, as has been pointed out, it's not truly a religion. Atheism and Confuscianism should be included, even though they might not be pure "religions".

 

[dc82]

hrm interesting point crazyeskimo - i think what makes confucianism diff. than the atheism in the ussr is that it wasn't politicized in the same way atheism was. sure confucianism and its affects cud be seen even in the laws and gov't of china, but it wasn't glorified in the way communism, atheism was in the soviet union. hah, so that's interesting... expanding it to more than just religion, but to politicized philosophies in the modern age - so "democracy" vs "communism" vs "nazi-ism" all of which influenced modern civ's in very similiar ways that religion had throughout early history.

 

[oldStatesman]

What I find odd about the design team's philosophy is that they ommitted things like Terrorism and Fundamentalism and Hilter because of the controversy they would cause...and then turn around and try to implement a 'generic' religious model using 'non-generic' names. Are they unaware of the heated controversy this could cause as well????? Why avoid the former decisions so assiduously, but open up Pandora's box anyway with the latter one?

 

[RandomInsanity]

maybe before you choose a more mainstream religion all civs are automatically considered pagan.
I'm wondering why atheism isn't on the list,
I think all or almost all communist states were/are atheist

 

[MrMahk]

what about good old polytheism??

 

[CTM]

Atheism isn't a religion. I'm sick of people who think it is, too.

Paganism, by its original definition, is a religion other than that of Islam, Christianity, or Judaism. That's still the way it's defined today, though some like to expand on it and have it include any religion that isn't a world religion (with the exception of Judaism of course; the original definition was based on the idea that these three religions were the only "civilized" religions). Therefore, the Greeks and Romans were pagans, up until the Roman Empire was "Christianized".

Personally, I would have liked to see Mithraism, though due to its nature of being a mystery cult we don't really know a whole lot about it (though it once was one of the most popular religions in the known world), and it appears Civilization 4 is going with world religions alive and well in the world today.

 

[RandomInsanity]

im not saying its a religion, just that the option to have no state religion (secular) or a state that discouraged religion (by using force or not) would be nice too