The Ancient Mediterranean Mod (TAM) - Large Map ver 2.5j

[grs]

Is there Oil under Medessa

 

[Stapel]

On the CRPSuite:
mapstat - what you probably want to use and what akots talks about, just load it and put your autosave directories in the preferences, it automatically monitors these

I did run mapstat. I checked preferences and saw autosave directories were already by default filled in.

So, what's next?
So far all advice has been what I already knew / did .

Edit:
This time I changed notification to Garrish, and I suddenly get a big alert. Could the subtle alert be so subtle I didn't notice?

 

[Stapel]

And I get an alert for a city being neutral in happiness..... Is that feature or a bug?

Edit: it appears to be the growth-shrink alert. never mind.

 

[akots]

In my humble opinion, MapStat interface is rather intuitive. The happiness screen just shows which cities have grown in size or in cultural borders and need adjustment. The trade screen shows workers and techs for trade and sometimes luxuries/resources but since the trade routes are calculated independently from Civ, and algorith is buggy, it does not always show all trades correctly. There is also very helpful flip calculator especially in our situation.

And please, may be we need some archers. But I think we won't be able to survive this one. Better make peace as soon as we can and if we can. Wars during the growth phase are extremely unpleasant.

@Winterfell: In the future, it might be better to ask a team what to do in a similar situation that you have encountered. But it is OK, we can start a new game as Egypt.

 

[Winterfell]

Oh sorry, I guess I didn't estimated it correctly.
Probably my subconsciousness wanted to play egypt and decided to lose with the etruscans.

Anyhow maybe there's still a chance. Let's leave it to the next player.

 

[akots]

Yes, lets wait for grs to play the turns. If we can survive the attack, we might have a good shot at winning this one.

 

[grs]

Pre: I thought I was known for hazardous denial refusals, but suggesting we will fight the Macedonians any longer as needed

4700BC: Get rune script and 72g from Caesar for horseback riding. Start alphabet.

4650BC: Have to pass a worker offer (it wont be the last)

4600BC: Gallic complete their pallisades. Macedonians show an archer and we move to greet him.

4550BC: --

4500BC: Kill the archer. Huns and Troy have thing law.

4450BC: Daccia teleport us into a dead end. Macedones show another archer.

4400BC: Kill the other archer. Two champignon cavalry move into Edessa.

4350BC: The champingnon cavalries close in. Macedonians want 550 gold for peace. Etruscan Pottery completes.

4300BC: Tarquiini founded as dotmapped.

4250BC: Cavalry kills our spear and retreats into the city. Macedonian units show from the north and east.

4200BC: Pay 560gold for peace.

4150BC: Polytheism is known to Troy and Huns.

4050BC: Troy suddenly know bronze working and alphabet, they must have better trading partners in the east.

4000BC: Rome tries to cross our lands with a settler. We have an unmoved settler in Volci. Since alphabet and polytheism have been traded around, you might have a shot if you sell our techs to the backward civs. Getting alphabet would probably be optimal. I sent an archer scouting east, because unlike warriors they can cross mountains.

I would settle and nothing else till we have filled all land. Farmes gambit is a necessity here (although you will need to build a unit from time to time).

 

[akots]

Five hundred gold for peace bites but good thing we survived. There is room left for 4 more cities if we go to dense build. And we need copper. The closest source is Cumae and it might flip unless Rome starts to build temples which is unlikely or they get a wonder. We can try sailing with a boat for contacts. Should be timber around, don't know if we have the tech.

It looks like landgrabbing is a priority and we want the settler as far as we can get to NNW. And may be grow some population and make archers and warriors for future upgrade while saving cash. Guess we have to get rid of pesky Romans in order to survive. Any ideas how?

Roster:

1. akots
2. Stapel
3. Winterfell
4. grs - Saved us from annihilation
5. Bezhukov - UP
6. Krys - Getting ready

 

[Bezhukov]

Got it. Two questions for discussion before I play:

1. Thing Law will be available soon. I've tested it, and the communal corruption does not work. On the other hand, it removes the despo penalty. Do we want to revolt when we get it?

2. Dot map - the (few remaining, around the northern Adriatic) core sites have few resources. Do we want to be scattered all over, or build the (mediocre) core?

3. Alphabet allows curraghs - cherry pick with those? I'm already planning on one to make contact with the other Mediterranean civs. Good call on the archer heading east - the more advanced civs there will bring down tech costs in the next age when techs are UNTRADEABLE. How long does that last, BTW?

4. OK, not 2, but 4. Focus on irrigation for growth, or mines for productivity?

 

[grs]

Got it. Two questions for discussion before I play:

1. Thing Law will be available soon. I've tested it, and the communal corruption does not work. On the other hand, it removes the despo penalty. Do we want to revolt when we get it?

I would not revolt until we have settled all available land.

2. Dot map - the (few remaining, around the northern Adriatic) core sites have few resources. Do we want to be scattered all over, or build the (mediocre) core?

I would scatter.

3. Alphabet allows curraghs - cherry pick with those? I'm already planning on one to make contact with the other Mediterranean civs. Good call on the archer heading east - the more advanced civs there will bring down tech costs in the next age when techs are UNTRADEABLE. How long does that last, BTW?

I would build a curragh immediately to gain contacts. When do we get the first ship which can hold a settler btw?

4. OK, not 2, but 4. Focus on irrigation for growth, or mines for productivity?

I would irrigate first. Beware that resouce boni are different (cow is +1,+1 e.g.).

 

[Bezhukov]

I'm pretty comfortable (and not terribly satisfied) with the various resource/terrain changes. Hills are just Plains that take longer to develop - lame. This game on Deity feels a lot like unmodded on Sid, except for the oddly bashful AI. Are we playing on low aggression? I played a couple test games, and noted that several AI had 4 cities before I had two.

I haven't started the turns yet and will wait for input from TAM vets. Thanks for the guidance GRS - along the lines of what I had planned, although the greater food from Thing could help expansion. Too bad we're not religious.

 

[Stapel]

-There is bronze under the Gallian city in the west. We might consider taking it by force.

-Only the first techs can't be traded, in new ages.

 

[akots]

Since we are not religious, I'd prefer to do with some decent government. This Thing Law, I did not like it when I tried, we cannot cash-rush and corruption is high. Better stay in despotism and wait for Monarchy to come. Food is OK, just irrigate the bonus tiles.

I guess without looking at the save, just grab whatever space is left, we cannot be much picky here. I'd move the settler as far as possible to make sure that AI does not build a town between Caere and settler location after we found a city.

 

[Stapel]

A new dot-mapo would be cool! Mine is accomplished!

 

[Winterfell]

I say we should wait for a better gov than thing law. And since we do not have many units and we have a lot of cash, it might be something else than monarchy. Note that there are many differences between c3c govs and this mod's govs.

 

[Bezhukov]

I've thought a lot about the differences in this mod and would like to suggest an entirely different strategy. After settling one more town to grab maximum tiles in the eastern core, instead of building settlers, we build lots (25-30) warriors, then trade for copper and upgrade them to our 8/2 Peltast unit (only requires copper) when copper and that tech come on the market.

The one thing we have (and will have) in abundance is gold. Shields and Pop are highly restricted, and Settlers in this mod cost a ton of the things we don't have (shields and pop). If you include the opportunity cost of lost production, Settlers cost about 110 shields and 50 gold (post-settler towns will only make two or three shields instead of 6 or 7 unitl they slowly regrow). We could build 11 warriors with those shields instead. Better perhaps, to build 2 spears, and six warriors to upgrade, with maybe an archer mixed in. This force should easily be able to take a town, if not two or three.

So conquest is more cost efficient than settling, no?

It is also imperative that we establish contact with the tech leaders who are feeding Troy so we can buy techs at 5-7 instead of 2-4, and then resell them.

 

[Winterfell]

I've thought a lot about the differences in this mod and would like to suggest an entirely different strategy. After settling one more town to grab maximum tiles in the eastern core, instead of building settlers, we build lots (25-30) warriors, then trade for copper and upgrade them to our 8/2 Peltast unit (only requires copper) when copper and that tech come on the market.

The one thing we have (and will have) in abundance is gold. Shields and Pop are highly restricted, and Settlers in this mod cost a ton of the things we don't have (shields and pop). If you include the opportunity cost of lost production, Settlers cost about 110 shields and 50 gold (post-settler towns will only make two or three shields instead of 6 or 7 unitl they slowly regrow). We could build 11 warriors with those shields instead. Better perhaps, to build 2 spears, and six warriors to upgrade, with maybe an archer mixed in. This force should easily be able to take a town, if not two or three.

So conquest is more cost efficient than settling, no?

It is also imperative that we establish contact with the tech leaders who are feeding Troy so we can buy techs at 5-7 instead of 2-4, and then resell them.

Well this strategy seems efficient. If you will go for that you must first of all find out how you will get the copper. Besides, now I recall pelstats are only available with bronze working, which means we will need tin as well.
To get copper we must either build trade routes to rome or gallia, that will take time. Anyhow, I say begin your truns with this strategy and if there are any problems just come here again.

 

[Bezhukov]

Broadswords take both, but Peltasts (sort of our UU) only take copper. Hopefully, we can coordinate the invasion with Monarchy to get the most out of our GA (triggered by Peltast, I believe, will need to check). Harbors will also help get trade going.

 

[Winterfell]

Who will you attack?

 

[akots]

There will be time for upgrade. Now it is time to build a few more cities if this is possible. We also have granaries which helps to survive a little bit. IMO, going for total warrior build is too early, however, the capital can certainly go for that. Besdies, they will be veteran in this case.