The Ancient Mediterranean Mod (TAM) - Large Map ver 2.5j
- Thread starter akots
- Start date
Pre-flight: swap Volci to warrior (will time settler builds to 5 pop, instead of four, to retain more productivity), MM Care to get Spear in 2. Spears cost 4xwarrior, so will only build a few. Wow, lots of tech out there will save up to buy sailing.
4000BC: Send settler to grab land in NE core.
3950BC: MM for growth.
3900BC: Caere spear->slave market (pre-build for harbor), Tarquinni worker-> warrior. All right, time to wheel and deal. Gift Germanic 25 gold to improve relations, get it back and all his gold (140 total) for HBR. 110 from Scythia for same. Ack, Troy still wants 15 gpt on top of our lump. Wait a couple. We badly need contact with the tech leaders.
IBT: Troy tries to extort 42 gold we need that gold to buy techs, and he IS far away. We refuse, and he backs down.
3850: Gravica settler->warrior, Volci warrior->settler Send Gravica settler west to sweet 3 lux spot. Trade our entire economy to get sailing from Mycenae. Trade to Gallia for 390 and 4 gpt. Get BW from Huns for Sailing + 150. Get 240 + 4 gpt from Rome for sailing. 30 gold from Goths. No one else has much to offer. Caere to harbour in two. Can dial lux down to zero.
DO NOT trade for copper until we build up at least 20 warriors. I forgot we are agriculture, so I think a combined farmers gambit/mass upgrade strategy will work well. Peltast is also move 2!
8/2/2 unit that only requires copper.
3800BC: MM sharing tiles to get better growth with same production. Found Casa to grab maximum tiles to NE.
IBT: great. Pirate galley shows up in adriatic.
3750BC: Caere harbour (fish are +3 food!)->curragh in 3 Ship HBR to Britons for 120gold. To Germanic for 60+1 gpt. Buy Mysticism (monopoly) from troy for 730+4gpt. Sell to Alex for 260. To Agamemnon for 40+10gpt. To Attila for 180+2gpt. Hate to cut into Priamos business like that.
Not! To Gallia for 30+13gpt.
3700BC: Goths have Polytheism now, and Mycenae lacks it, but has Alpha. And the Goths want our entire economy for Poly. Whatever.
3650BC: Gravisca warrior->warrior
Huns want a big chunk of our gold. Hmm, refuse and they declare. Sorry if this hurts us, but should turn out to be phony.
3600BC: Caere curragh->curragh Pirate (5/4/2) waiting for us. Well wait for a second. Iberia beat us to the three lux spot west. Dacia give us 10gpt and 30 for Mysticism. Trade Britons 3 techs for Polytheism. Agamemnon gives us Alphabet and 20 gold for Poly. We have achieved tech parity!
3550BC: Oh, except Thing Law. Rome trades us that+120+8gpt for Poly. The 120 includes the 25 I gave him to get him polite with us.
IBT: Britons build Stonehenge.
3500BC: Telamun founded in west, getting flax and another wool.
3450BC: Ceare curragh->warrior (bingo, one turn vet warriors, baby!)
Pirate moves to north, we can sneak by! 
One curragh has an archer on board, please drop him off near Israel and head east to Assyria and parts east the tech leaders should be there. The other one can go hit the sea peoples, carthage, etc
Vilco Settler->Settler, Tarquni worker->worker.
3400BC: Ceare riots.
Forgot his MP left. Lux to 10% for a turn.
IBT: Gallia extorts Alphabet.
3350BC: There is a settler next to the Roman copper. A city here should be able to produce culture in 15-20 turns with poprushes, stealing the Roman copper and giving us a strategic point from which to effectively attack Rome. Ill leave that decision to the next player. Be careful to dodge the Pirate ship with our curraghs hes on their tail. Oh, and the Huns are at war with us.
Sorry for the delay, the file was too big.
4000BC: Send settler to grab land in NE core.
3950BC: MM for growth.
3900BC: Caere spear->slave market (pre-build for harbor), Tarquinni worker-> warrior. All right, time to wheel and deal. Gift Germanic 25 gold to improve relations, get it back and all his gold (140 total) for HBR. 110 from Scythia for same. Ack, Troy still wants 15 gpt on top of our lump. Wait a couple. We badly need contact with the tech leaders.
IBT: Troy tries to extort 42 gold we need that gold to buy techs, and he IS far away. We refuse, and he backs down.
3850: Gravica settler->warrior, Volci warrior->settler Send Gravica settler west to sweet 3 lux spot. Trade our entire economy to get sailing from Mycenae. Trade to Gallia for 390 and 4 gpt. Get BW from Huns for Sailing + 150. Get 240 + 4 gpt from Rome for sailing. 30 gold from Goths. No one else has much to offer. Caere to harbour in two. Can dial lux down to zero.
DO NOT trade for copper until we build up at least 20 warriors. I forgot we are agriculture, so I think a combined farmers gambit/mass upgrade strategy will work well. Peltast is also move 2!
8/2/2 unit that only requires copper.3800BC: MM sharing tiles to get better growth with same production. Found Casa to grab maximum tiles to NE.
IBT: great. Pirate galley shows up in adriatic.
3750BC: Caere harbour (fish are +3 food!)->curragh in 3 Ship HBR to Britons for 120gold. To Germanic for 60+1 gpt. Buy Mysticism (monopoly) from troy for 730+4gpt. Sell to Alex for 260. To Agamemnon for 40+10gpt. To Attila for 180+2gpt. Hate to cut into Priamos business like that.
Not! To Gallia for 30+13gpt. 3700BC: Goths have Polytheism now, and Mycenae lacks it, but has Alpha. And the Goths want our entire economy for Poly. Whatever.
3650BC: Gravisca warrior->warrior
Huns want a big chunk of our gold. Hmm, refuse and they declare. Sorry if this hurts us, but should turn out to be phony.
3600BC: Caere curragh->curragh Pirate (5/4/2) waiting for us. Well wait for a second. Iberia beat us to the three lux spot west. Dacia give us 10gpt and 30 for Mysticism. Trade Britons 3 techs for Polytheism. Agamemnon gives us Alphabet and 20 gold for Poly. We have achieved tech parity!
3550BC: Oh, except Thing Law. Rome trades us that+120+8gpt for Poly. The 120 includes the 25 I gave him to get him polite with us.
IBT: Britons build Stonehenge.
3500BC: Telamun founded in west, getting flax and another wool.
3450BC: Ceare curragh->warrior (bingo, one turn vet warriors, baby!)
Pirate moves to north, we can sneak by! One curragh has an archer on board, please drop him off near Israel and head east to Assyria and parts east the tech leaders should be there. The other one can go hit the sea peoples, carthage, etc
Vilco Settler->Settler, Tarquni worker->worker. 3400BC: Ceare riots.
Forgot his MP left. Lux to 10% for a turn.IBT: Gallia extorts Alphabet.
3350BC: There is a settler next to the Roman copper. A city here should be able to produce culture in 15-20 turns with poprushes, stealing the Roman copper and giving us a strategic point from which to effectively attack Rome. Ill leave that decision to the next player. Be careful to dodge the Pirate ship with our curraghs hes on their tail. Oh, and the Huns are at war with us.
Sorry for the delay, the file was too big.
grs
nameless one
I can not say anything, but this is a huge mistake. On my turns as I read it from your turns, these are our best trading partners, since they are on the gate to the eastern civs. Getting into a war about 42 gold pieces is one thing (often wrong), but getting in a war with the AIs who allow you the excellent trades you made on your turns. Try to reread your turn without being able to trade to these two and they lose all the good they have.
The 1st demand refusal (for currency) costed us 560 gold, netto, as we were not able to trade currency to him anymore after the war. This will cost us trading oportunities at least.
EDIT: Btw, I can't find the save.
Winterfell
Warlord
well except for these mistakes, which I sadlly made as well, I think the turns were played fine. note he proamos didn't declare when we refused, only the huns.
Well, the huns, besides we can't trade with them now they're uu is really fast... We might need to build def again.
Well, the huns, besides we can't trade with them now they're uu is really fast... We might need to build def again.
akots
Poet
Please, if possible, can you upload the save?
Huns will come and in numbers. We better prepare another 500g to pay them for peace.
The settler is standing on forest and he cannot build a town there to steal the Roman copper. Besides what culture we are going to build? Just buy a worker and sacrifice one? There is however a city spot in the north near tin, and a rather good spot which we better grab before it is too late.
Don't know about the trades. Well, at least seems we made some profit.
Krys is up and can play anytime the save is around.
Let's discuss the strategy. Seems that the expansion phase has been finished mostly and we need to focus on military build up and future plans.
Huns will come and in numbers. We better prepare another 500g to pay them for peace.
The settler is standing on forest and he cannot build a town there to steal the Roman copper. Besides what culture we are going to build? Just buy a worker and sacrifice one? There is however a city spot in the north near tin, and a rather good spot which we better grab before it is too late.
Don't know about the trades. Well, at least seems we made some profit.
Krys is up and can play anytime the save is around.
Let's discuss the strategy. Seems that the expansion phase has been finished mostly and we need to focus on military build up and future plans.
Winterfell
Warlord
Actually he is standing on a hill, it's just hard to see. The best indication is that you can see the future city borders, meaning the tile is settle-able.akots said:
Possible, we may also build a shrine and a temple by rushing population.akots said:
akots said:
From what I've seen in the screenshot, no worries about that. There is a warrior guarding that spot, and AI will not settle in the other spots availableas these are too close to our cultural borders.
akots
Poet
Winterfell said:
Sorry, did not notice it is on the hill. Then it makes sense.
Winterfell,
Thanks for making just the points I was going to make. As for the Huns, we could have as easily traded with Troy as with them. They are both buying their techs from the east. Usually they got techs simultaneously with Troy. You may be thinking of the Goths? with whom I was able to broker with a bit.
The gold was worth it, in my judgement, as we were racing to buy techs in order to sell them before Troy did. It is entirely possible that the Huns do not even know where we are - I did not see a Hun unit during any of my turns. If not, we now have the economy to support a ransom better. We should also be building quite a few units over the coming turns, so this should decrease the power disparity.
Pls do not build Spears - they cost 4xwarriors for little benefit. Yes, the warrior is guarding the Tin spot. We do not need tin for our UU, so low priority to settle there, though it is fresh water, so can grow over 4.
Thanks for making just the points I was going to make. As for the Huns, we could have as easily traded with Troy as with them. They are both buying their techs from the east. Usually they got techs simultaneously with Troy. You may be thinking of the Goths? with whom I was able to broker with a bit.
The gold was worth it, in my judgement, as we were racing to buy techs in order to sell them before Troy did. It is entirely possible that the Huns do not even know where we are - I did not see a Hun unit during any of my turns. If not, we now have the economy to support a ransom better. We should also be building quite a few units over the coming turns, so this should decrease the power disparity.
Pls do not build Spears - they cost 4xwarriors for little benefit. Yes, the warrior is guarding the Tin spot. We do not need tin for our UU, so low priority to settle there, though it is fresh water, so can grow over 4.
>Don't know about the trades. Well, at least seems we made some profit.
You can't be serious. Building up gold for upgrades in this manner is our only chance. This is the key to our strategy. In my turns we went from 200 gold and +12 per turn to 1200 gold and +60 per turn. We'll need (and will get, once we make more contacts) much more.
You can't be serious.
Building up gold for upgrades in this manner is our only chance. This is the key to our strategy. In my turns we went from 200 gold and +12 per turn to 1200 gold and +60 per turn. We'll need (and will get, once we make more contacts) much more.
grs
nameless one
I do not want to sound like a broken record, but it may well be that in someone elses turns the gold will go down some x00 and/or xxgpt again.
EDIT:
We should have at least an adequate number to protect our offense forces. Please be carefull with overestimating the 8 attack. 2 def in this mod is like 1 in epic.
akots
Poet
Still there is no save, at least I don't see a link to it.
IMO, we can go mostly for warrior builds with a few spearmen and tech brokering and then do instant upgrade. Need about 50-60 warriors/peltasts roughly to put a good dent into Romans and may be even kill them. But the more the better. 100 peltasts sounds reasonable. I assume Romans have at least 4 spears as defenders in each city and they are all veteran. And focus on getting contacts and more cash might be the top priority. Once we build up the forces, the demands would decrease if not disappear completely. And pretty soon we can start buying workers from AI.
For this to work, we need around 7-8K gold at least. When I was posting about the trade income, I was not sure whether we have made maximal profit possible. I noticed in a couple of trades there has been a rather large discount for the AI. The gold they have is not going to run away since they are in Despotism and if they have no contact with the tech leaders, we could have waited a bit before traiding and this would not accelerate the tech rate too much. However, these things are complicated and keeping tech rate balanced with our income requires considerable experience on Deity level in this mod which I am lacking. But if it were unmodded C3C, I would say that it was done OK but could have been done with less techs traded for the same cash and gpt. Again, since I lack experience in this mod, I'm not sure how brokering works and whether you can wait a turn or two before traiding.
The main disadvantage is that our tech brokering will accelerate the tech rate and might be too much so that we end up losing the caravan race or Diplomatic victory. That is why at a certain time point we have to stop traiding techs. Thus, the sooner we accumulate the cash we need the better we are off in the long run with expansion. I have to double check this but if there is a unit with enslave ability, we might think of using only it for combat and gaining a bunch of aux. warriors and sacrificing them thus gaining 20K cultural victory.
IMO, we can go mostly for warrior builds with a few spearmen and tech brokering and then do instant upgrade. Need about 50-60 warriors/peltasts roughly to put a good dent into Romans and may be even kill them. But the more the better. 100 peltasts sounds reasonable. I assume Romans have at least 4 spears as defenders in each city and they are all veteran. And focus on getting contacts and more cash might be the top priority. Once we build up the forces, the demands would decrease if not disappear completely. And pretty soon we can start buying workers from AI.
For this to work, we need around 7-8K gold at least. When I was posting about the trade income, I was not sure whether we have made maximal profit possible. I noticed in a couple of trades there has been a rather large discount for the AI. The gold they have is not going to run away since they are in Despotism and if they have no contact with the tech leaders, we could have waited a bit before traiding and this would not accelerate the tech rate too much. However, these things are complicated and keeping tech rate balanced with our income requires considerable experience on Deity level in this mod which I am lacking. But if it were unmodded C3C, I would say that it was done OK but could have been done with less techs traded for the same cash and gpt. Again, since I lack experience in this mod, I'm not sure how brokering works and whether you can wait a turn or two before traiding.
The main disadvantage is that our tech brokering will accelerate the tech rate and might be too much so that we end up losing the caravan race or Diplomatic victory. That is why at a certain time point we have to stop traiding techs. Thus, the sooner we accumulate the cash we need the better we are off in the long run with expansion. I have to double check this but if there is a unit with enslave ability, we might think of using only it for combat and gaining a bunch of aux. warriors and sacrificing them thus gaining 20K cultural victory.
There were actually many small trades that went unreported. I'm pretty sure Macedonia has nearly the same contacts we do. Just about everyone but Iberia showed up with new techs at some point. I tried to wait until they had built up at least 50 free gold before making trades. It was necessary to take some sub-optimum amounts to:
A. beat Troy/Macedonia to the sale
B. Build up enough capital to get techs sooner than some of the midrange civs could get them - i.e. Gallia, Rome, Mycenae, and yes, grs, the Huns in one case, and then resell for a handsome profit.
Once we contact the tech leaders, prices for B will come down. Once we meet more laggards, profits from A will go up.
As to a too fast tech pace, won't the untradability of second age techs take care of that? As to Peltast defense - remember that they are also a fast unit. I have not seen any Roman fast units.
I don't think we need to wait for 50 units. The best timing would be after getting our government to monarchy to maximize our GA. Let's try to only trade old techs for workers, they are expensive to pay cash for. We may indeed have to ransom the Huns, but I would be surprised if they can even find us.
A. beat Troy/Macedonia to the sale
B. Build up enough capital to get techs sooner than some of the midrange civs could get them - i.e. Gallia, Rome, Mycenae, and yes, grs, the Huns in one case, and then resell for a handsome profit.
Once we contact the tech leaders, prices for B will come down. Once we meet more laggards, profits from A will go up.
As to a too fast tech pace, won't the untradability of second age techs take care of that? As to Peltast defense - remember that they are also a fast unit. I have not seen any Roman fast units.
I don't think we need to wait for 50 units. The best timing would be after getting our government to monarchy to maximize our GA. Let's try to only trade old techs for workers, they are expensive to pay cash for. We may indeed have to ransom the Huns, but I would be surprised if they can even find us.
akots
Poet
It all makes sense.
Krys is up then. May be possible to build us some military... Mostly warriors of course.
Krys is up then. May be possible to build us some military... Mostly warriors of course.
akots
Poet
@Krys: You are up, please post "got it".
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
Yeah, I have this in mind. Unfortunately I was out last night, barely slept at all, and now I'm working, and may go out tonight as well. Maybe I'll only be able to play on Saturday morning/noon. If it's OK for everyone, then I promise to play it first before my PBEMs, otherwise just skip me, no big deal.
In case I play, I'll just follow your pieces of advice, guys.
If it's OK for everyone, then I promise to play it first before my PBEMs, otherwise just skip me, no big deal.In case I play, I'll just follow your pieces of advice, guys.
akots
Poet
I'm sure you can find and hour to play and post hopefully tomorrow morning. With MapStat it will take no more than that to play but if you would have to click on every civ every turn, it might be indeed taking a longer time. 
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
Here we go. I played from turn 93 to turn 100. I did no trade, as prices that AI would propose me seemed way to low. No pic because our territory didn't see major changes, apart from the "soon-to-have-copper" city.
93- 3350BC : Found Velutonia.
94- 3300BC : Caere builds warrior.
IT (94-) : Scythians ask us to leave their territory, we leave.
95- 3250BC : Caere builds warrior.
Trading with Romans is now possible (sea route from Caere to Ravenna). Romans have copper, marble, wines, we have wool, Alphabet.
IT (95-) : Our warrior in Scythia is killed by a Hun chariot.
The pirate galley sinks after attacking a Roman curragh.
96- 3200BC : Caere builds warrior.
Tarquinii builds worker.
97- 3200BC : Caere builds warrior.
Casa builds worker.
IT (97-) : Macedonians ask us to leave their territory, we leave.
98- 3100BC : Caere builds warrior.
IT (9
: 3 Hun warriors enter our territory, next to Casa.
99- 3050BC : Caere builds warrior.
Our 4/4 archer in Casa kills a 4/4 Hun warrior on hill.
We sign peace with the Huns for 520 gold.
Trading with Mycenaeans is now possible (sea route from Caere to Athenae). Mycenaeans have copper, marble.
Troyans have Monarchy, they must have paid around 3000 gold for it.
Lux to 10%.
IT (99-) : Macedonians ask us to leave their territory, we leave.
Mycenae (Mycenaeans) builds the Colossus.
100- 3000BC : Caere builds warrior.
Gravisca builds settler.
Huns also have Monarchy.
The settler was meant to go to southern France, but a Gallian settler is already going to this crowded place. There is the tin area to settle, and also maybe Slovenia (east of the capital).
the save is here and is heavy
93- 3350BC : Found Velutonia.
94- 3300BC : Caere builds warrior.
IT (94-) : Scythians ask us to leave their territory, we leave.
95- 3250BC : Caere builds warrior.
Trading with Romans is now possible (sea route from Caere to Ravenna). Romans have copper, marble, wines, we have wool, Alphabet.
IT (95-) : Our warrior in Scythia is killed by a Hun chariot.
The pirate galley sinks after attacking a Roman curragh.
96- 3200BC : Caere builds warrior.
Tarquinii builds worker.
97- 3200BC : Caere builds warrior.
Casa builds worker.
IT (97-) : Macedonians ask us to leave their territory, we leave.
98- 3100BC : Caere builds warrior.
IT (9
: 3 Hun warriors enter our territory, next to Casa.99- 3050BC : Caere builds warrior.
Our 4/4 archer in Casa kills a 4/4 Hun warrior on hill.
We sign peace with the Huns for 520 gold.
Trading with Mycenaeans is now possible (sea route from Caere to Athenae). Mycenaeans have copper, marble.
Troyans have Monarchy, they must have paid around 3000 gold for it.
Lux to 10%.
IT (99-) : Macedonians ask us to leave their territory, we leave.
Mycenae (Mycenaeans) builds the Colossus.
100- 3000BC : Caere builds warrior.
Gravisca builds settler.
Huns also have Monarchy.
The settler was meant to go to southern France, but a Gallian settler is already going to this crowded place. There is the tin area to settle, and also maybe Slovenia (east of the capital).
the save is here and is heavy
akots
Poet
Bezhukov said:
Please let's make the things clear: There are no phony wars in this mod.
I will try to play today in the evening or tomorrow.
grs
nameless one
Especially since a big chunk is never more than 100..... We lost more than 1k gold and some units for nothing now
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