1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

The Atlas Project

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Utility Programs' started by Junuxx, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. Sine Nomen

    Sine Nomen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    65
    It's really a damn shame this seems to have died out - this is by far the best realistic map creator for Civ IV. I like using it to create something to start from and then refining it to make it as earth-like as possible
     
  2. Junuxx

    Junuxx Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,153
    Location:
    the Netherlands
    It's not dead! Just hibernating or in deep coma!

    Actually I've had some bad computer problem stuff, among other things I had no internet for over 3 months. But things are starting to sort themselves out and I've actually been working on Atlas a bit this week. But it's -still- a lot of work before a release version. But I do expect to finish it this summer. :)
     
  3. Gr3yHound

    Gr3yHound Mr.MapView

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    395
    Hi Junuxx,
    nice to hear from you again.

    Atlas can´t be hinbernating, i don´t any things that hibernate in July ;)

    I also coded several on MapView today, it´s really fun and motivating when you find post in your app's thread that sound like the person really likes the tool. I' m working on a rewrite atm that isn´t pretty done yet. You can already place stuff etc. but that´s not much better as i had before. As soon as the level of my earlier version is reached i can actually start profiting of the rewrite and get real kewl things done.

    I hope you´re alright

    greetz grey
     
  4. Junuxx

    Junuxx Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,153
    Location:
    the Netherlands
    slightly offtopic, but it's winter on the southern hemisphere at the moment ;)

    I'm in sort of a same phase, I've implemented some cool new features but still missing some of the old functionity and such

    Our projects are becoming quite long-term stuff, aren't they :D
     
  5. primem0ver

    primem0ver Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,091
    Location:
    Mesa, AZ
    Hello... I am new to this thread and I have not read through it. Instead I just went to your atlas home page to see if it had what I was looking for. I have been interested in coming up my own terrain generator myself because I want one that is really realistic. You, like myself are a map nut. There may be one difference: I have an extensive background in geology and a significant background in climate (I am an earth/space science teacher and this was one of my majors in college).

    My whole point in coming up with a map generator were to make these aspects of the map more realistic.

    Before I make a comment, I am going to inform you that I am not here to criticize, I am here to join the team or have you join mine or at least put my two cents worth in so that I can be pointed in the right direction for what I want to do. With that said here goes:

    I really like what I have seen of your generator so far, but I have to say that from your screenshots and your map legend, they do not accomplish the goal I want to accomplish.

    First of all, mountains don't occur at random as they seem to on your map. They do not occur alone either except in rare occasions. Mountains occur in groups (ranges) and most often they occur between 100 and 800 miles of coast line. There is a good geologic reason for this. The only time mountain ranges occur in the middle of continents is when you get continent-continent plate collisions (which has happened in asia at least twice but that seems to be the only place).

    Second: desert locations on ALL map generators I have seen so far are NOT positioned correctly. Here are the guidelines of placing deserts that I will use (and you should if you want them correctly done and I do not "join the team" so to speak):

    Keep in mind that much of this has to do with planetary spin. If the earth revolved the other way, the opposite would be true:

    1. Deserts almost NEVER happen on east coasts, because coastal moisture tends to come in from the (equator-ward) east except at northern latitudes where they come in from the (equator-ward) west. The ONLY exception to has to do with mountains: see below.

    2. The EQUATOR: deserts ONLY happen along the equator if something causes dry conditions or prevents moisture from reaching the land. I noticed that on most of your balanced maps (water and land) that your deserts are occuring along the equator. Most of the time, unless water cannot get to the area, tropical rain forests appear in this region.

    3. THE MOST COMMON LATITUDES FOR DESERTS are between 20 and 30 degrees both north and south latitudes. The reason for this is that a global high pressure zone exists here (except in oceans... but even there it is higher than usual).

    4. Mountains: Mountains can cause deserts INLAND from an ocean (called the leewards side). A desert will NEVER occur between an ocean and a mountain range as long as that mountain range is within a couple hundred miles of coast. Mountains are the ONLY thing that will prevent far-spread moisture along east coasts. Moutains (and that lack of a large equator-ward east coast) are the primary cause of the huge desert in the middle of Australia.

    Third, there are a few other climate discrepancies but these are not as significant as the Desert issue.

    Basically... my ideal map generator would include a geology generator and a climate generator (based on a ocean current generator) AND a drainage system generator to make a realistic map. If this is something you are interested in, let me know. It would also place mineral resources based on the geologic and drainage generators. I was originally intending to place my map generator in the SDK but I can see the advantage of writing it in Java. Good Idea... but could you use my help, or is this a little more than you want? (If not, I will simply do it my own way... no worries).
     
  6. Junuxx

    Junuxx Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,153
    Location:
    the Netherlands
    primem0ver,

    Awesome comment, thanks, professional criticism is always very welcome :cool:

    I agree with you on of your points, too. I admit loads of things could and should be improved, especially the mountains. The current generation mechanism is more or less meant as a placeholder, to be replaced by something serious as the rest of the programs is coming along. The same is true for continent shapes. I'm thinking about using some kind of Voronoi decomposition to generate continent shapes and mountain ridges.

    Then about deserts. Actually, Atlas places mostly jungle in the equatorial area, and deserts tend to appear in the region with latitude between 15 and 30 degrees (I did some research on that ;)). I've heard the suggestion about coastal deserts etc before, and I guess that it would be more realistic, but I wonder what it would do to the gameplay. Are massive deserts fun? Think of the busloads of barbarians that spawn in places you're not constantly supervising. Civ is still a game after all and I think it's important to find a balance between realism and playability.

    Anyway, how are your Java skills? ;) I've been thinking about making Atlas more modular, in the sense that you're able to extend a default Generator class with your own methods for generating continents and terrain and the like. In that way anyone interested in making a map generator can get on with the interesting stuff instead of spending ages on matters like interface etc.

    I'd like to hear your ideas about the other ideas and exchange thoughts and stuff. Tell me what you think :)
     
  7. smith-b-d

    smith-b-d Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    54
    Just so you both know, I'm sorta interested too.

    I only know c++ & c#, (EDIT: java's fairly identical to c#). So if yous are willing to develop in either of those two i am willing to help in anyway i can. preferably c++.

    @primem0ver
    Interesting comments about deserts, i myself know nothing about them, i've just been basing my placement upon a picture of the earth(a huge 6meg picture) i have on my desktop.
    edit:
    oh, and despite the title of my thread, it was actually updated the other day :p
     
  8. Gr3yHound

    Gr3yHound Mr.MapView

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    395
    Create the absolute ACME Tool!
     
  9. primem0ver

    primem0ver Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,091
    Location:
    Mesa, AZ
    I write in C++, C# as well. I have done a bit in java but not much. I have a question. Have you linked the CvGameCoreDLL.dll to Atlas? Or have you just created your own map classes etc... to be able to create savegames? I tried writing a wrapper for the dll in C# because I created the beginnings of what I wanted to do some time ago (not for any particular game... but as a geology simulator) in C# and I decided I would try and create a civ4 version and finish it.

    For some reason, it is not able to load one of the dlls CvGameCoreDLL.dll requires, even though I have put it in the same folder. So I was curious how you got your progam to create Civ4 saves.

    EDIT: About your deserts at 15-30 degrees
    It is good that you are familiar with this fact and that you say that your program places them here, but some of your screenshots seem to suggest otherwise. Are they older screenshots? You have at least two that have desert sandwiched between jungles

    Edit2:
    I checked your screeshots again... actually it is only one. And that one doesn't seem to have jungles at all. Is this one a "dry" world?
     
  10. Gr3yHound

    Gr3yHound Mr.MapView

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    395
    Me for myself don´t have the dll linked, i wrote my own map class. I wonder if it would help. Guess not ;D everything works just fine ;)
     
  11. Visceral Monkey

    Visceral Monkey Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2005
    Messages:
    25
    Wow, I remember when this thread was just a baby.

    *tear*
     
  12. tbear2520

    tbear2520 Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    103
    Long time guys!!! years... Looking this over now and it looks so great! Good work ;)

    tbear2520
     
  13. chad187

    chad187 Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    347
    I gotta try this out.
     
  14. egaonogenki

    egaonogenki Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
    Messages:
    167
    Location:
    Hutchinson, KS
    I've waited for nearly a year now.

    Has Atlas 0.5 been released yet?

    If not, what will it take to get it released? How much should I donate? Whatever it takes at all, I'll see if I can donate it. Ok?
     
  15. Junuxx

    Junuxx Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,153
    Location:
    the Netherlands
    No, it hasn't been released yet.
    But yes, I definitely plan to continue this project when I have both time and motivation. Ideas aplenty!
     
  16. dot

    dot crossing the i's

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    1,190
    Location:
    Schland.
    :bump:

    Against all fading hope ... :)
     
  17. Junuxx

    Junuxx Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,153
    Location:
    the Netherlands
    I'm still making some progress occasionally, you know :o
    I actually designed and added 2 buttons and their functionality to the new program last week! But although I'd really like to realise all my plans with this project, I just can't find the time and the perseverance I had in the beginning. There WILL be a new version, just don't hold your breath :p
     
  18. joebasstard

    joebasstard Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Great stuff...but, as to comment 4; when you say deserts NEVER occur between mountains and coast if they are within a couple hundred miles, please explain the Atacama. I'm not trying to criticize, just to understand.
     
  19. joebasstard

    joebasstard Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Atlanta
    threadsecutioner strikes again
     
  20. Junuxx

    Junuxx Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,153
    Location:
    the Netherlands
    I think the Atacama (and the Namib too) are not so much deserts because they are in the rain shade of a mountain range but because they are on west coasts. His first point explains this. Winds carrying moisture in the southern hemisphere come from the east, therefore, the Atacama would have been dry with or without the Andes. So the mountains don't cause it per se, but they probably do aggravate the drought.
     

Share This Page