The Best General in History

[lutzj]

...Other ones I admire greatly are Alexander, Phillip, Sun Tzu, Bismarck (strategy, politics), Leonidas (sheer bravery), Lysander, Cyrus, David, Queen Victoria, and countless others I've forgotten...

I can see it now... Queen Victoria riding into battle on a white horse ... looking through a spyglass at enemy ships ... pushing around little pieces (representing armies) on a map in a busy strategy room.

 

[privatehudson]

I seem to recall from my wargaming youth that a company produced a 28mm "special" model (the type they give away at shows) of her Majesty carrying a shotgun like some great white hunter. It looked quite good when painted.

 

[necrosmith]

Surely George Washington and George Patton warrant consideration.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Genghis Khan!!!

 

[Angst]

Who do you guys think he is. I vote Robert E. Lee

Whoever controlled the Finnish army under WW2.

 

[pawpaw]

Whoever controlled the Finnish army under WW2.

Carl Gustaf Mannerheim

 

[Angst]

Carl Gustaf Mannerheim

Sounds all German?

 

[pawpaw]

Sounds all German?

Family came from Germany in 16th century.

 

[Adler17]

It sounded even more German: Carl Gustav von Mannerheim.

Adler

 

[Ancient Grudge]

Napoleon is my #1: He never gave up
Patton and Hannibal are #2 and #3, respectively, both could have been great with more support from their home countries.

EDIT: I'm American

Does a good general send a small force of men behind enemy lines to rescue his son in law, only for the attempt to leave said son in law injured and only 2 men return to the safety of their own lines?

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I'm torn between following the rule (edit - I'm American), and voting for George Washington. His first foray in the soldiering profession was something of a blunder (at the start the French and Indian War), but he learned over the years what it took to pull off one of the most amazing military revolutions I ever read about.

...or I vote my gut and pick Mannerheim from Finland.

 

[Angst]

Does a good general send a small force of men behind enemy lines to rescue his son in law, only for the attempt to leave said son in law injured and only 2 men return to the safety of their own lines?

It looks good on his cv.

 

[Gudinsdiv]

As my name may imply, I take Napoleon(that would be Gudin's division of the Third Corps under Marshal Davout, my favorite).

I can't see the discussion getting anywhere beyond opinion, however, because in truth there have been hundreds of outstanding "generals" throughout history, Napoleon himself giving a list of at least twelve. He included Caesar, Hannibal, Alexander, and Frederik the Great, as well as Eugene of Savoy, the Duke of Marlborough, and Turenne.

The range of opinion is impressive here, nonetheless. That no two generals have ever encountered exactly the same circumstances in their careers, however, alters the discussion a bit. Likewise, there have been generals of innovation and generals of refinement, that is, those who introduced new ideas and those who took new ideas and successfully impemented them.(Someone mentioned Suvurov. Brilliant!)

I take Napoleon because he literally changed the European world, not just militarily but overall. His accomplishments continue to this very day, and the fact that he was able to do all that he did politically and domestically while revolutionizing how war was waged(for the next century) is a great display of the mans overall genius.

But, hey, that's only one mans opinion--and I'm not even French--or Corsican!

 

[TheLastOne36]

Sobieski.

Austria (possible alot more then austria to) could've been muslim if it wasn't for him.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

Austria (possible alot more then austria to) could've been muslim if it wasn't for him.

You say that as if thats a terrible thing. Regardless of whether the Ottomans won or not they would have been pushed back out of Austria soon after and Islam barely went through Balkans why would you think Austria would suddenly convert to Islam?

 

[Gudinsdiv]

ohcrapitsnico:

It is fair to say that Austria might have--and positive or negative is not the point, I don't think, but that at the time, it was a clash of religions/cultures. That Islam under the Ottomans made inroads into the Balkans can't be seriuously disputed, especially as the war in Croatia revealed. The mix of nationality and religion was as much an issue for the Austrian Empire in their history as it was for Yugoslavia in it's own time. Likewise, the atrocities committed against conquered cities by either side were both common and terrible. Russian armies, as a case in point, traditionally spent three days looting, raping, and murdering when they captured a Turkish city.
Much was at stake.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

ohcrapitsnico:

It is fair to say that Austria might have--and positive or negative is not the point, I don't think, but that at the time, it was a clash of religions/cultures. That Islam under the Ottomans made inroads into the Balkans can't be seriuously disputed, especially as the war in Croatia revealed. The mix of nationality and religion was as much an issue for the Austrian Empire in their history as it was for Yugoslavia in it's own time. Likewise, the atrocities committed against conquered cities by either side were both common and terrible. Russian armies, as a case in point, traditionally spent three days looting, raping, and murdering when they captured a Turkish city.
Much was at stake.

I'm referring to conversions to Islam not the conquests of the Ottomans whether or not Thelastone36 meant conversion or ottoman conquest is questionable. If the Ottomans conquered Austria they would have most definately pillaged but destroy the nation, no. The problems in todays Balkans are not a result of Ottoman butchery and barbarism but botched politics after the Ottoman retreat and WWI and WWII. Lets not forget Austria was an absolute monarchy and oppressed its serfs. Even if the Ottomans conquered austria they would have been kicked out and a less venomous austria would take hold.

 

[Gudinsdiv]

I'm referring to conversions to Islam not the conquests of the Ottomans whether or not Thelastone36 meant conversion or ottoman conquest is questionable. If the Ottomans conquered Austria they would have most definately pillaged but destroy the nation, no. The problems in todays Balkans are not a result of Ottoman butchery and barbarism but botched politics after the Ottoman retreat and WWI and WWII. Lets not forget Austria was an absolute monarchy and oppressed its serfs. Even if the Ottomans conquered austria they would have been kicked out and a less venomous austria would take hold.

I agree that they would not have destroyed Austria. And I didn't mean to infer that the Ottomans were any more or less brutal than their European neighbors--in fact, the Europeans were probably more brutal. That Islam took root in the Balkans is more due to the fact that the Ottomans were not as religiously authoratative as the Christians. The Papacy's zero-tolerance policy is proof of that. In fact, the Ottomans were generally much more tolerant, and tended not to see Christians as the same hords from hell that the Christians saw in them. My reference to Croatia is to the simple mix of race and religion there. They were under Ottoman influence for a long time. Compare that to the relatively unmixed nature of Spain on a religious level. When Ferdinand and Isabella finally defeated the Moors, they didn't want any Muslims anywhere--or Jews for that matter. So yeah, the somewhat psychotic bent in Western Europeans at that time would have called for another Crusade. Austria was the seat of the Holy Roman Emporer, after all.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

I can agree to that. I find it rather interesting how religiously diverse Spain was in the middle ages and how one sided it became after 1492. On the same note the Ottomans rescued Jews and Muslims from the onslaught of the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[Dame Edna]

You say that as if thats a terrible thing. Regardless of whether the Ottomans won or not they would have been pushed back out of Austria soon after and Islam barely went through Balkans why would you think Austria would suddenly convert to Islam?

Of course it would have been a terrible thing if the Ottomans had captured Vienna and Islam had taken root in central Europe. Interesting how Muslims can talk about the great conquests of Islam rather than what it really was - the brutal invasion and subjugation of Syria, Palestine, Persia, Byzantium, Egypt, Balkans, Russia, Spain, North Africa and India. Hardly suprising they got an equally brutal reply with the Crusades and Reconquista.

Thank any God you like the Ottomans were stopped at Vienna or else Central Europe would have become a misogynist backward society like the rest of the Islamic world is today.